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The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
11-16-2020, 05:52 PM
Post: #4096
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
conservative means you want to freeze things or keep them as they are.
I'm more about "THIS IS THE WAY THINGS SHOULD BE AND SOME THINGS DO NOT CHANGE"

conservative means you're always on the defensive.. when there should be no offense or defense with a lot of these things.

Tried and true human values should not be labeled with an "ism"

that is the way I see it. we must rise above the labels.
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11-17-2020, 12:55 AM
Post: #4097
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
(11-16-2020 05:52 PM)EVILYOSHIDA Wrote:  conservative means you want to freeze things or keep them as they are.
I'm more about "THIS IS THE WAY THINGS SHOULD BE AND SOME THINGS DO NOT CHANGE"

conservative means you're always on the defensive.. when there should be no offense or defense with a lot of these things.

Tried and true human values should not be labeled with an "ism"

that is the way I see it. we must rise above the labels.
The ideology were are fighting is Post-Modernism which is part of the school of philosophy known as Pragmatism.

That's why I use Anti-Pragmatist as my forum title. It basically means to challenge the New World Order.

To be an anti-Pragmatist is to understand that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

"We declare pragmatism to be bad, not indeed in its moral consequences (which, as a matter of fact, ought not to count in philosophy), but because it introduces into our fashion of thinking a degrading sophistry. Pragmatism, in its modern systematized form, would scarcely have been possible in earlier times. It has, however, become so since erudite scholars and original thinkers have deemed it fit to cater to a public incapable of taking a genuine interest in their researches and their speculations, a public which in the last resort wishes simply to amuse itself with these as it amuses itself with everything else, — the public of our modern democracies. We feel flattered by the plaudits of the crowd, and to procure these we are satisfied to get down to the level of those whom as thinkers we should disdain. Popular science, popular art, popular theology — only one thing was lacking — popular philosophy."

- Albert Schinz, Anti-Pragmatism; an Examination into the Respective Rights of Intellectual Aristocracy and Social Democracy (1909), p. xv.

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.”
― Leonardo da Vinci
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11-17-2020, 07:16 AM
Post: #4098
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
It might all be semantics but I feel like the elites sell 'Idealism'.

And that clearly they are godless, authoritarian, and intent on imposing their will over the entirety of the globe.

What pragmatism means to me (not saying this is the philosophical definition of pragmatism) is focusing on taking steps that can feasibly be taken.

I have values, I have ideals, but I have definitely abandoned 'idealism' (which IMO is the natural diametrical opposite of 'pragmatism').
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11-17-2020, 07:54 AM
Post: #4099
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
(11-17-2020 07:16 AM)Chaos Reigns Wrote:  It might all be semantics but I feel like the elites sell 'Idealism'.

And that clearly they are godless, authoritarian, and intent on imposing their will over the entirety of the globe.

What pragmatism means to me (not saying this is the philosophical definition of pragmatism) is focusing on taking steps that can feasibly be taken.

I have values, I have ideals, but I have definitely abandoned 'idealism' (which IMO is the natural diametrical opposite of 'pragmatism').
I'm not talking about the current usage of the term to mean sensible or reasonable.

I'm talking about the Philosophical movement start by John Dewey & William James. Based on the Prussian-model of education aka the "factory model of education".
[Image: pragmatism.png]

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.”
― Leonardo da Vinci
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11-17-2020, 07:58 AM
Post: #4100
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/pragmatism.html:
[The Pragmatists] declared that philosophy must be practical and that practicality consists of dispensing with all absolute principles and standards—that there is no such thing as objective reality or permanent truth—that truth is that which works, and its validity can be judged only by its consequences—that no facts can be known with certainty in advance, and anything may be tried by rule-of-thumb—that reality is not firm, but fluid and “indeterminate,” that there is no such thing as a distinction between an external world and a consciousness (between the perceived and the perceiver), there is only an undifferentiated package-deal labeled “experience,” and whatever one wishes to be true, is true, whatever one wishes to exist, does exist, provided it works or makes one feel better.

A later school of more Kantian Pragmatists amended this philosophy as follows. If there is no such thing as an objective reality, men’s metaphysical choice is whether the selfish, dictatorial whims of an individual or the democratic whims of a collective are to shape that plastic goo which the ignorant call “reality,” therefore this school decided that objectivity consists of collective subjectivism—that knowledge is to be gained by means of public polls among special elites of “competent investigators” who can “predict and control” reality—that whatever people wish to be true, is true, whatever people wish to exist, does exist, and anyone who holds any firm convictions of his own is an arbitrary, mystic dogmatist, since reality is indeterminate and people determine its actual nature.

In the whirling Heraclitean flux which is the pragmatist’s universe, there are no absolutes. There are no facts, no fixed laws of logic, no certainty, no objectivity.

There are no facts, only provisional “hypotheses” which for the moment facilitate human action. There are no fixed laws of logic, only mutable “conventions,” without any basis in reality. (Aristotle’s logic, Dewey remarks, worked so well for earlier cultures that it is now overdue for a replacement.) There is no certainty—the very quest for it, says Dewey, is a fundamental aberration, a “perversion.” There is no objectivity—the object is created by the thought and action of the subject.

Epistemologically, their dogmatic agnosticism holds, as an absolute, that a principle is false because it is a principle—that conceptual integration (i.e., thinking) is impractical or “simplistic”—that an idea which is clear and simple is necessarily “extreme and unworkable.” Along with Kant, their philosophic forefather, the pragmatists claim, in effect: “If you perceive it, it cannot be real,” and: “If you conceive of it, it cannot be true.”

What, then, is left to man? The sensation, the wish, the whim, the range and the concrete of the moment. Since no solution to any problem is possible, anyone’s suggestion, guess or edict is as valid as anyone else’s—provided it is narrow enough.

To give you an example: if a building were threatened with collapse and you declared that the crumbling foundation has to be rebuilt, a pragmatist would answer that your solution is too abstract, extreme, unprovable, and that immediate priority must be given to the need of putting ornaments on the balcony railings, because it would make the tenants feel better.

There was a time when a man would not utter arguments of this sort, for fear of being rightly considered a fool. Today, Pragmatism has not merely given him permission to do it and liberated him from the necessity of thought, but has elevated his mental default into an intellectual virtue, has given him the right to dismiss thinkers (or construction engineers) as naive, and has endowed him with that typically modern quality: the arrogance of the concrete-bound, who takes pride in not seeing the forest fire, or the forest, or the trees, while he is studying one inch of bark on a rotted tree stump.

The two points central to the pragmatist ethics are: a formal rejection of all fixed standards—and an unquestioning absorption of the prevailing standards. The same two points constitute the pragmatist approach to politics, which, developed most influentially by Dewey, became the philosophy of the Progressive movement in this country (and of most of its liberal descendants down to the present day).
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11-17-2020, 08:00 AM
Post: #4101
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
great posts JHO thank you
it's been making more sense to me now

as pragmatism as understood in Asia is just like live your life. things are just things.
The pragmatism over there is a protection against subversion as no one has time to buy into pie in the sky mind bending theories.
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11-17-2020, 08:10 AM
Post: #4102
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
Most people like Jay Dyer use the term Post-Modernism to describe the progressive academic types but that's idea that only goes back to the '60s.

Pragmatism (with a capital P) is just the philosophical tradition that all of these leftist thinkers fall under, and it's origins can be traced to John Dewey and the origins of our public school system in America which was subverted from the beginning.
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11-17-2020, 08:15 AM
Post: #4103
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
yeah I guess it's more about pragmatically destroying traditional society

use the most effective means to destroy the existing social order
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11-19-2020, 02:32 AM
Post: #4104
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
Trump is about to issue order pulling troops from Somalia, Afghanistan and Iraq:


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11-19-2020, 12:23 PM
Post: #4105
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
With Republicans in GA and MI working overtime to sabotage Trump's reelection efforts things are not looking good for him (though the war is not over). However, it occurs to me that Trump does have a bit of a Hail Mary that I haven't seen discussed. If Republicans take over the House in 2020 then Trump can be made Speaker of the House. There's no law requiring the Speaker to be a member of the House. The Speaker is second in line for the Presidency. The House and Senate could impeach and remove Biden and Harris from office, making Trump the President for 2 years. Then he can run for reelection and serve 4 more years. All of this is completely Constitutional.
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11-19-2020, 01:25 PM
Post: #4106
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
(11-19-2020 12:23 PM)Count Iblis Wrote:  With Republicans in GA and MI working overtime to sabotage Trump's reelection efforts things are not looking good for him (though the war is not over). However, it occurs to me that Trump does have a bit of a Hail Mary that I haven't seen discussed. If Republicans take over the House in 2020 then Trump can be made Speaker of the House. There's no law requiring the Speaker to be a member of the House. The Speaker is second in line for the Presidency. The House and Senate could impeach and remove Biden and Harris from office, making Trump the President for 2 years. Then he can run for reelection and serve 4 more years. All of this is completely Constitutional.

interesting point. at this point if he does not at least deliver on the vote fraud games, his rep is shot.

Those who know, know! Big Grin
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11-20-2020, 12:07 AM
Post: #4107
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
I'm not sure if he's going to be able to prove his fraud claims. In a way it doesn't matter. Everyone already knows that there's been massive fraud in this election. Also Trump's military moves lately suggest he's going to order the troops in Afghanistan home. That will be massively popular with the general population and a giant middle finger to the Neocons.
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11-23-2020, 10:08 PM
Post: #4108
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
RT trump analysis

https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/50748...start-war/
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11-24-2020, 08:44 AM
Post: #4109
The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
(11-20-2020 12:07 AM)Count Iblis Wrote:  I'm not sure if he's going to be able to prove his fraud claims. In a way it doesn't matter. Everyone already knows that there's been massive fraud in this election. Also Trump's military moves lately suggest he's going to order the troops in Afghanistan home. That will be massively popular with the general population and a giant middle finger to the Neocons.


“Everyone already knows that there’s been massive fraud in this election”.... No, actually, the only people who know that there was massive fraud in this election are the people who use their feelings as evidence, as opposed to actual facts. Show me 1 piece of credible evidence, besides your tears, of widespread voter fraud. One piece.. I’ll wait.


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11-24-2020, 08:52 AM
Post: #4110
RE: The Candidacy and Presidency of Donald Trump
(11-24-2020 08:44 AM)The Principal Wrote:  
(11-20-2020 12:07 AM)Count Iblis Wrote:  I'm not sure if he's going to be able to prove his fraud claims. In a way it doesn't matter. Everyone already knows that there's been massive fraud in this election. Also Trump's military moves lately suggest he's going to order the troops in Afghanistan home. That will be massively popular with the general population and a giant middle finger to the Neocons.


“Everyone already knows that there’s been massive fraud in this election”.... No, actually, the only people who know that there was massive fraud in this election are the people who use their feelings as evidence, as opposed to actual facts. Show me 1 piece of credible evidence, besides your tears, of widespread voter fraud. One piece.. I’ll wait.


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When they stopped counting votes, in multiple places, at the same time, on election night?

Something that had never been done before?

And then one by one all those leads Trump had, disappear one by one?
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