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Founder of Zionism, Theodore Herzl...interesting/shocking quotes
04-02-2013, 08:51 AM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2013 03:15 PM by pug-thug.)
Post: #1
Founder of Zionism, Theodore Herzl...interesting/shocking quotes
Quote:Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), the founder of modern Zionism, recognized that anti-Semitism would further his cause, the creation of a separate state for Jews. To solve the Jewish Question, he maintained “we must, above all, make it an international political issue.”

Herzl wrote that Zionism offered the world a welcome “final solution of the Jewish question.” In his “Diaries”, page 19, Herzl stated “Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies.”


THEODOR HERZL MEETS POPE PIUS X

[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTHbwBLmjcY2ZV8W_7lJb7...xj8bwG9SQi]

THEODORE HERZL (1860-1904) is commonly acknowledged to be the visionary founder of
modern political Zionism that led to the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. A secular
Jew educated in the high culture of Vienna, Austria, having received a doctorate in law in 1884,
Herzl’s confrontation with European anti-Semitism led to the eventual conclusion that the only
solution was the establishment of a distinct nation for this distinctive people.

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04-02-2013, 08:56 AM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2013 08:56 AM by pug-thug.)
Post: #2
RE: Founder of Zionism, Herzl, considered converting jews to Catholicism
HERZL's DIARY ENTRY

Rome. January 26, [1904]

Yesterday I was with the Pope [Pius X]. . . .
I arrived ten minutes ahead of time, and
without having to wait I was conducted
through a number of small reception rooms to
the Pope.
He received me standing and held out his
hand, which I did not kiss. Lippay had told
me I had to do it, but I didn’t. I believe this
spoiled my chances with him,
for everyone
who visits him kneels and at least kisses his
hand. This hand kiss had worried me a great
deal and I was glad when it was out of the
way.
He seated himself in an armchair, a throne
for minor affairs, and invited me to sit by his
side. He smiled in kindly anticipation.

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04-02-2013, 09:01 AM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2013 09:02 AM by pug-thug.)
Post: #3
RE: Founder of Zionism, Herzl, considered converting jews to Catholicism
HERZL: I thank Your Holiness for the favor of
granting me this audience. [I begged him to
excuse my miserable Italian, but he said:
POPE: No, Signor Commander, you speak
very well.
[He is an honest, rough-hewn village
priest, to whom Christianity has remained a
living thing even in the Vatican. I briefly laid
my request before him. But annoyed perhaps
by my refusal to kiss his hand, he answered in
a stern categorical manner.]

POPE: We are unable to favor this movement
[of Zionism]. We cannot prevent the Jews
from going to Jerusalem—but we could never
sanction it.
The ground of Jerusalem, if it
were not always sacred, has been sanctified by
the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the
Church I cannot answer you otherwise. The
Jews have not recognized our Lord, therefore
we cannot recognize the Jewish people.

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04-02-2013, 09:06 AM
Post: #4
RE: Founder of Zionism, Herzl, considered converting jews to Catholicism
HERZL: [The conflict between Rome and
Jerusalem, represented by the one and the
other of us, was once again under way. At the
outset I tried to be conciliatory. I said my
little piece. . . . It didn’t greatly impress him.
Jerusalem was not to be placed in Jewish
hands.
] And its present status, Holy Father?
POPE: I know, it is disagreeable to see the
Turks in possession of our Holy Places. We
simply have to put up with it. But to sanction
the Jewish wish to occupy these sites, that we
cannot do.
HERZL: [I said that we based our movement
solely on the sufferings of the Jews, and
wished to put aside all religious issues
].
POPE: Yes, but we, but I as the head of the
Catholic Church, cannot do this. One of two
things will likely happen. Either the Jews will
retain their ancient faith and continue to
await the Messiah whom we believe has
already appeared—in which case they are
denying the divinity of Jesus and we cannot
assist them. Or else they will go there with no
religion whatever, and then we can have
nothing at all to do with them
The Jewish faith was the foundation of our
own, but it has been superceded by the
teachings of Christ, and we cannot admit that
it still enjoys any validity.
2
The Jews who
should have been the first to acknowledge
Jesus Christ have not done so to this day.

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04-02-2013, 09:16 AM
Post: #5
RE: Founder of Zionism, Herzl, considered converting jews to Catholicism
HERZL: [It was on the tip of my tongue to
remark, “It happens in every family: no one
believes in his own relative.” But, instead, I
said:
] Terror and persecution were not
precisely the best means for converting the
Jews.
[His reply had an element of grandeur
in its simplicity
:]
POPE: Our Lord came without power. He
came in peace. He persecuted no one. He was
abandoned even by his apostles. It was only
later that he attained stature. It took three
centuries for the Church to evolve. The Jews
therefore had plenty of time in which to
accept his divinity without duress or pressure.

But they chose not to do so, and they have
not done it yet.3
HERZL: But, Holy Father, the Jews are in a
terrible plight. I do not know if Your Holiness
is aware of the full extent of their tragedy. We
need a land for these harried people.
POPE: Must it be Jerusalem?
HERZL: We are not asking for Jerusalem, but
for Palestine—for only the secular land.
POPE: We cannot be in favor of it.

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04-02-2013, 09:26 AM
Post: #6
RE: Founder of Zionism, Herzl, considered converting jews to Catholicism
HERZL: Does Your Holiness know the
situation of the Jews?
POPE: Yes, from my days in Mantua, where
there are Jews. I have always been in friendly
relations with Jews. Only the other evening
two Jews were here to see me. There are other
bonds than those of religion: social
intercourse, for example, and philanthropy.
Such bonds we do not refuse to maintain with
the Jews.
Indeed we also pray for them, that
their spirit see the light. This very day the
Church is celebrating the feast of an
unbeliever who became converted in a
miraculous manner—on the road to
Damascus. And so if you come to Palestine
and settle your people there, we will be ready
with churches and priests to baptize all of
you.



---

wow HAHA. Imagine a pope saying that today. This is the official catholic position on the Jews. Convert them. Not oppress them.

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04-02-2013, 09:31 AM
Post: #7
RE: Founder of Zionism, Herzl, considered converting jews to Catholicism
Quote:Theodor Herzl was born in 1860 in Budapest, the second child of assimilated upper middle class Jewish parents who were enormously ambitious for, and over-protective of, their only son. As a child Herzl was precocious and moody, utterly convinced that he was destined for greatness, a belief his parents encouraged. He claimed, for example, to have dreamt at age twelve that Jesus carried him to Moses, who told him: “Go and announce to the Jews that I shall soon come and perform great and wonderous deeds for my people....” And yet Herzl had litte interest in things Jewish; if anything, he adopted some of the stereotyped anti-Semitic attitudes of his day.

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04-02-2013, 09:36 AM
Post: #8
RE: Founder of Zionism, Herzl, considered converting jews to Catholicism
Quote:Herzl’s reaction to the anti-Semitism in Vienna in the 1880s had been mixed. He’d resigned from a fraternity he’d belonged to because of its growing anti-Semitism, but at the same time had been toying with the then popular idea of conversion. (Mahler, for example, had converted to Catholicism because he thought it would help his career.) Herzl was convinced that inter-marriage was a good thing for Jews; it would improve their “alien-looking, despised physiognomy.” Now in France, Herzl suddenly began coming up with schemes for curing the world of anti-Semitism. He would duel with anti-Semites, and the resulting publicity would change things. He would go to the Pope, and in exchange for the Pope’s help against anti-Semitism, Herzl would urge the conversion of all Jews to Christianity.

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04-02-2013, 09:40 AM
Post: #9
RE: Founder of Zionism, Herzl, considered converting jews to Catholicism
Quote:Without money or even the promise of any, the self-appointed spokesman of the Jews bribed his way in to the Turkish sultan and offered to buy Palestine, oblivious of the fact that there were already people there; he suggested that the Jews of Europe would take over Turkey’s enormous national debt. But Jewish millionaires such as the Rothschilds, to whom he went for money, weren’t interested in his plan. Herzl therefore organized a grass roots Zionist movement and a political weekly, Die Welt. The first International Zionist Congress met in Basel in 1897; at the end of it, Herzl wrote in his diary: [b]“In Basel I founded the Jewish state.... Perhaps in five years, and certainly in fifty years everyone will agree.”[/b]

A return to Palestine was not to be during Herzl’s lifetime. Attempts to establish a Jewish homeland in the Sinai or in Uganda were also unsuccessful. In 1904, after years of illness, Herzl died a broken and disappointed man at the age of forty-four. His wife died three years later. Two of his children committed suicide; a third died in a Nazi concentration camp. In 1946, his only grandchild committed suicide.

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04-02-2013, 09:57 AM
Post: #10
RE: Founder of Zionism, Herzl, considered converting jews to Catholicism
His psychological intensity is pretty admirable, even if I disagree with a lot of what he says.

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04-02-2013, 10:05 AM
Post: #11
RE: Founder of Zionism, Herzl, considered converting jews to Catholicism
Israelis shocked at the anti-semitism of Herzl




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04-03-2013, 03:09 PM
Post: #12
RE: Founder of Zionism, Herzl, on catholicism and anti-semitic attitudes
"Simple goyim are better than Rabbis, and the highest are the goyish priests."

i wonder what Israelis think of their leader saying stuff like this.

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04-03-2013, 03:13 PM
Post: #13
RE: Founder of Zionism, Herzl... very interesting quotes
Herzl also refused to circumcise his son.



His son converted to Catholicism.

In fact I think he admired Catholicism pretty much in a similar way I do. You cannot help but admire it if you look into it.

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04-03-2013, 03:21 PM
Post: #14
RE: Founder of Zionism, Theodore Herzl...interesting/shocking quotes
In the book "Hertzel", this is a quote: "I bless every jew that converts to Christianity and my son, the sooner the better, to save him from anti-Semitism.

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04-03-2013, 03:22 PM
Post: #15
RE: Founder of Zionism, Herzl... very interesting quotes
Interesting guy, I wouldn't kiss the pope's ring either but it's pretty ballsy to go there and not do it. You'd think he would just want to get away from Jews with those feelings. I guess he got away with it because he helped the cause regardless. There is somewhat of a stereotype of self-hatred with Jews, and it seemed to run in this guy's family, crazy.
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