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Ukraine - Discussion Thread
02-26-2014, 06:06 AM
Post: #46
RE: Nuland: US Has Spent $5 Billion to “Subvert Ukraine”
Doesn't NWO refer to "the New World", as in "the Americas"? The NWO meaning the New World's order over the world?
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02-26-2014, 06:13 AM
Post: #47
RE: Nuland: US Has Spent $5 Billion to “Subvert Ukraine”
The New Atlantis

New World does refer to the Americas, but I think NWO actually means a new secular communist type world order.
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02-26-2014, 12:49 PM
Post: #48
RE: Nuland: US Has Spent $5 Billion to “Subvert Ukraine”
(02-26-2014 06:13 AM)EVILYOSHIDA Wrote:  The New Atlantis

New World does refer to the Americas, but I think NWO actually means a new secular communist type world order.
The NWO of course has never been interested in nationalizing their own private property, which makes up most of the western economies anyway. When the globalists show up in third world countries, their plan is to denationalize and privatize them as much as possible.
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02-26-2014, 12:50 PM
Post: #49
RE: Nuland: US Has Spent $5 Billion to “Subvert Ukraine”
yes privatize first so they can buy it up.

then monopolize and create public/private partnerships. the scheme is pretty simple. I know some people involved these processes.
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02-26-2014, 01:50 PM
Post: #50
RE: Nuland: US Has Spent $5 Billion to “Subvert Ukraine”
Great thread

I guess it didn't matter whether we elected Clinton or Trump.
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02-26-2014, 04:02 PM
Post: #51
RE: Nuland: US Has Spent $5 Billion to “Subvert Ukraine”
(02-26-2014 12:50 PM)EVILYOSHIDA Wrote:  yes privatize first so they can buy it up.

then monopolize and create public/private partnerships. the scheme is pretty simple. I know some people involved these processes.

Yes, sometimes there are partnerships. But the government partners in the NWO scheme are rarely "government businesses". Usually the businesses are private and they cooperate with agencies or other such entities.

The economic production itself is monopolized in private hands.
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02-26-2014, 05:27 PM
Post: #52
RE: Nuland: US Has Spent $5 Billion to “Subvert Ukraine”
^ true, but often times retired govt. people sit on the board of these private companies.

crony capitalism.
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02-26-2014, 06:13 PM
Post: #53
RE: Nuland: US Has Spent $5 Billion to “Subvert Ukraine”


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02-28-2014, 08:17 PM
Post: #54
Will Crimea break away from Ukraine?
The region is closely tied to Russia, leading some to suggest it could be the point where Ukraine breaks apart

http://rbth.ru/international/2014/02/27/...34625.html

On the night of Feb. 27, unidentified armed men seized the buildings of the parliament and cabinet of ministers in the southern Ukrainian region of Crimea. Russian flags have been hoisted over both buildings.

The action indicates that the confrontation between the supporters and opponents of the change of government in Kiev has shifted from the Ukrainian capital to Crimea.

Outside observers fear that the action in Crimea could indicate the first step in the break-up of the country.

How Crimea became part of Ukraine

During its long history, Crimea has belonged to various countries and for a while was even independent. In 1441, Crimea became an independent stare ruled by a Tatar Khan, but its independence did not last long.

In 1475 the Khan became a vassal of the Ottoman Empire. For three centuries, the Crimean Tatars were ruled by the Ottomans, although they had broad autonomy. They protected the Ottoman Empire from attack from the north, and ensured a constant influx of slaves. In 1774, after yet another Russian-Turkish war, the Crimean Khan became the vassal of the Russian rather than Ottoman empire.

Up until 1944, Crimea had a mixed Russian and Tatar population. It was occupied by the Germans on two occasions (in 1918 and in 1941-1944). During the Bolshevik Revolution the Tatars tried to restore their independent state, but in the end, Crimea became part of Soviet Russia.
The government in Moscow favored the Tatars, and the peninsula became an autonomous republic. But after World War II and the German occupation, during which the Tatars collaborated with the Germans, they fell victim to Moscow's wrath and were deported to the east.

In 1954, Crimea was stripped of its status as an autonomous republic and was made an administrative part of Ukraine. The decision was made in honor of the 300th anniversary of the Pereyaslav Council, which approved the reunification of Ukraine and Russia. In truth, however, Crimea's geographic location had much to do with the move. It is easier to run the peninsula from Kiev than from Moscow.

The Crimean near-war

In the 1990s there was a lot of tension in and around Crimea. After independence, Ukraine tried a policy of Ukrainization of the peninsula, which caused a lot of resistance among the local population. The Tatars, who were given the right to return to Crimea, tried to use the turmoil to restore their lost lands and privileges. The most contentious issue was the main base of the Soviet Black Sea Fleet in Sebastopol.

In the end, Crimea did not break away from Ukraine, but it was given special privileges. Of all the Ukrainian provinces, it is the only one that has the status of an autonomous republic. Crimea was essentially permitted to remain Russian. The changes were largely cosmetic, such as new street signs in Ukrainian. The area remained fairly calm until the most recent crisis.

The rights to the peninsula

There are two important factors to consider when discussing the future of Crimea: the ethno-cultural, and the economic.

Crimea is the most Russian part of Ukraine. Its population is 58 percent ethnic Russian, 24 percent Ukrainian, and 12 percent Tatar. Russian is the mother tongue for three quarters of Crimeans. Only 10 percent say their mother tongue is Ukrainian. According to the Kiev International Institute of Sociology, 97 percent of Crimeans speak Russian.

Crimea does not have an economic elite oriented towards Europe. Its economy was devastated over the years of Ukrainian independence. In the late 1990s, Ukrainian oligarchs grabbed many of the most lucrative Crimean resorts, and even began to invest some money into them, but there was not significant investment in the region.

For both cultural and economic reasons, Crimea could not remain indifferent to the situation in Kiev. The first reaction of the local population was anger, the second – a demand to restore order. The upsurge in tensions that coincided with the 360th anniversary of the Pereyaslav Council and the 60th anniversary of Crimea being made part of Ukraine has now triggered an entirely official reaction.

Three possible scenarios

The first scenario is that things will somehow settle down of their own accord. However, the only person that seems to believe this is Viktor Yanukovych. The chances of that scenario coming to pass are slim.

The second scenario is that Crimea will receive even broader autonomy from the new goverment in Kiev. This scenario will come to pass only if some degree of stability is restored - and that will only be possible if the parties agree to the federalization of Ukraine. But supporters of Ukrainian independence are afraid of federalization.

The third scenario is that Crimea will break off from Ukraine and becoming another “unrecognized state” under Russian protection. Kiev does not have the strength to prevent that, even if a functioning government is restored in the Ukrainian capital.

Ukraine does not have especially effective armed forces, and due to the crisis, it has next to no economic leverage remaining either. But such a scenario could trigger a conflict in Crimea itself - a conflict between the Crimean Tatars and ethnic Russians who inhabit the peninsula.
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02-28-2014, 08:29 PM
Post: #55
RE: Will Crimea break away from Ukraine?
Yes. Which is bad for all.
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02-28-2014, 08:32 PM
Post: #56
RE: Will Crimea break away from Ukraine?
very good read.

This area is one of the crucial flashpoints in the world today.
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02-28-2014, 08:34 PM
Post: #57
RE: Nuland: US Has Spent $5 Billion to “Subvert Ukraine”
Venezuela and Ukraine: testing fields for America's new war-fighting style

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_02_28...tyle-2859/

After the illegal coup in Ukraine, the US is now applying its hybrid Color Revolution-Arab Spring regime change template to Venezuela. Washington is in full-fledged offensive mode, attacking non-Western states through the plausibly deniable weapon of thug rule, aided and abetted by American finance. What is happening in Venezuela is no different than what transpired in Ukraine, as both countries are victims of America's new style of unconventional aggression.

Venezuela and Ukraine have certain structural similarities. Both countries are involved in the energy trade, with the former being an exporter and the latter being an important transit state. The nations' leadership also narrowly achieved victory in the last election, demonstrating that there already exist elements within the country opposed to the legal government. Incidentally, both targeted nations are neighbors of close American military allies, Colombia and Poland. These regional partners already house American military infrastructure and these bases can be used to transmit signals and collect intelligence to aid the anti-government fighters. Having a close military ally near the battlefield allows the US to "Lead from Behind", defined as "discreet US military assistance with [others] doing the trumpeting." This was the case with Polish involvement in Ukraine and Turkish involvement in Syria, and it looks to be the same for Colombian interference in rival Venezuela.

America's new pattern for regime change involves the employment of right-wing extremist violence in densely populated urban areas. In this sense, it is the invocation of urban guerrilla warfare against the targeted government. Ukraine was under attack by the Right Sector and Venezuela is repulsing an offensive by La Salida. These extreme groupings both use the same tactics, namely Molotov cocktails and small arms weaponry. They agitate in large crowds on the street and stir up mob-like disorder and chaos.

Quoting Israel Shamir, "the US-orchestrated attack on the elected President (of Ukraine) followed (political activist) Gene Sharp's instructions to a tee". Shamir describes Sharp's steps towards regime change as follows:

1) seize a central square and organise a mass peaceful sit-in
2) speak endlessly of danger of violent dispersal
3) if the authorities do nothing, provoke bloodshed
4) yell bloody murder
5) the authority is horrified and stupefied and
6) removed and
7) new powers take over

Observers can recognize that the same strategy is being applied in Venezuela by the extreme-right. The Ukrainian and Venezuelan insurgents have also received copious amounts of cash from the US through "non-governmental" organizations. Victoria Nuland, the US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Eurasia, proudly bragged that $5 billion had been invested in Ukraine by the US ostensibly to promote democracy. The celebrated American proxy, Srdja Popovic, one of the founders of the anti-Milosevic American-funded Otpor!, has been linked to the training of the Venezuelan destabilizers. Working for Stratfor, the American intelligence company referred to as "the private CIA", Popovic even drafted a plan for overthrowing then-President Chavez back in 2010. Stratfor analyst Marco Papic, in speaking about Popovic's Venezuelan involvement in CANVAS, another Gene Sharp-inspired anti-government NGO, says, "If I remember correctly, we use hushmail communication to contact him regarding Venezuela due to the sensitivity of using a revolutionary NGO as a source considering we have clients who operate in country."

As is seen by the cases of Venezuela and Ukraine, Washington is privatizing the regime change business by contracting non-state actors and "non-governmental" organizations to carry out its subversive strategies against targeted states. Be it Venezuela or Ukraine, the methods are the same. It is important to note that some states have been proactive in trying to repel this fifth column invasion. Russia has recently passed legislation mandating that any NGO which receives funding from abroad and is involved in political activities must register as a foreign agent. Considering that America's new method of regime change is wreaking havoc in Ukraine and Venezuela, the new Russian law should work to proactively hinder likeminded revolutionary organizations from operating within the Russian Federation and endangering the lives of its citizens.
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02-28-2014, 08:34 PM
Post: #58
RE: Will Crimea break away from Ukraine?
And where'd you think Kashmir will go?
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02-28-2014, 08:37 PM
Post: #59
RE: Nuland: US Has Spent $5 Billion to “Subvert Ukraine”
How 'bout them 29% in Thailand?
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02-28-2014, 09:22 PM
Post: #60
RE: Nuland: US Has Spent $5 Billion to “Subvert Ukraine”
“And we 29 percent are here to represent everyone’s interests, whether they like it or not.”

http://notthenation.com/2014/01/29-movem...ll-street/
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