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I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
01-17-2014, 09:23 AM
Post: #46
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
(01-17-2014 04:42 AM)Daglord Wrote:  
(01-16-2014 11:22 PM)Redneck Wrote:  I think the relevance of Ringo Star's name is that it could be a reference to Saturn.

or it could just be a catchy name change due to the fact that his band (before the beatles) was adopting stage names @ the time. i love looking into this shit, but you can look too hard...

Sure you can look too hard, and that's what half the fun in this is for me, I do think that by looking so hard, I have found many other pieces of trivia about the Fab(ian) Four, that are rather intrigiuing. His name is probably just a stage version of his real name, Richard Starkey, and the fact he wore big rings as his gimmick. But things in the CT world are never that black or white.



Quote: if you researched this for a long time and after finding that "There is no documented connection that I can find between Tavistock, Adorno, and the Beatles, or even proff that Adorno ever owned the songs"

Because I did find various circumstantial evidence, and looked at studies done by the Stanford Institute and the Frankfurt School on changing culture, The studies fitted very well with the method used to market the rise of the Beatles. I'm not saying that is anything conclusive, but when digging for conspiracies, I tend to look for the slightest puff of smoke in case it leads to the fire.

Quote:do you still truly believe that theo adorno was ghost writing all the beatles songs in secret? & that the beatles needed this b/c they sucked & couldn't write?


I'm a lifelong Beatles fan, and I do think they were very talented guys, but I also believe that once it was obvious that they were going to be popular, a lot of help was given to them in the way of artistic material and ideas. This may have been done discretely, so that they weren't even aware of where the influence came from, but I do believe it was happening.

Quote:i mean, i'm assuming that you have watched a few of the hundreds of docs or read a few of the hundreds of books on the subject during your research. in just the anthology alone you can watch the creative process and the progression of their sound from start to finish. you can watch them writing/playing the songs. you can hear TONS of studio outtakes containing early versions of songs, demos, songs being created right on the spot, songs being combined into one, etc. pauls book "many years from now" goes into great detail on the songwriting process of almost their entire catalog revealing how they came to be & inspiration for lyrics. john's is a bit more vague, but consistent.



Yeah, I have watched tons of docus and read many books on the subject, and it's true, I can't prove squat. If it was a conspiracy like i'm saying, then they've covered their tracks well.


Quote:you can also google northern songs and know exactly who owns what, when & why.

I did this in the past and the Beatles ownership to 1969 is rather vague. Lennon and McCartney each held a 15% interest, Harrison and Starr only 1.6% and what is listed as 'various financial institutions' making up much of the public shares. Dick James was the majority share holder, and his rise to success from being a low level singer, is rather interesting in itself, and he was an old friend of George Martins. Who bankrolled James?


I don't believe that Adorno personally owned the songs, but I would like to know more about the "various financial institutions" which purchased the shares.



Quote: i dont get it. what am i missing??



A sense of adventure Wink

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01-17-2014, 01:42 PM
Post: #47
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
i hear ya & agree 100%. im all about the journey. its what i do. as i said before, the whole PID thing was what drove me to really listen to the beatles. i found they were very interesting lads who hung around in some very interesting circles. much like most the musicians/entertainers of that era. the beatles & the occult is a fascinating subject… that whole era is. indica, process, manson, polanski, farrow, crowley, beach boys, stones, etc could keep you busy for months.

this whole idea of adorno ghost writing though is ridiculous. the docs, books & outtakes provide overwhelming evidence that they were writing their own music w/the help of george martin & others. i don’t think there is any denying it. not to mention the numerous songs the lennon/mccartney team wrote for other performers @ the time through friendships & apple. hard to believe they too came from someone else and passed down through the beatles. The stories don’t support it.

imo it cant be proved b/c its not there. what can be proved, however, by video, audio & firsthand accts is them writing music. anyway...

as for a marketing push, like i said, that’s what PR, marketing guys & managers do. par for the course. but watch old interviews, there was a ton of charisma & quick wit there & the press ate that shit up. they most definitely had help in the beginning, but they lasted (& thrived) on their own merit. not even relying so much on george martin later on.

& yep, i definitely have a sense of adventure, & find i often have to stop myself @ the ridiculous. if not, then im just another ‘conspiracy theorist’ - only interested in the theories. & i hate that term... im looking for truth.

“just gimme some truth” Wink

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01-17-2014, 01:53 PM
Post: #48
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
the theory cannot be dismissed as a joke because there is precedence.

Grateful dead + CIA

Modern Art + CIA

also people have to understand the CIA is kind of attacked and outed a lot because the libs don't like them.

that's why their dirty laundry gets exposed.
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01-17-2014, 02:00 PM (This post was last modified: 01-17-2014 02:02 PM by Daglord.)
Post: #49
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
(01-17-2014 01:53 PM)EVILYOSHIDA Wrote:  the theory cannot be dismissed as a joke because there is precedence.

Grateful dead + CIA

Modern Art + CIA

also people have to understand the CIA is kind of attacked and outed a lot because the libs don't like them.

that's why their dirty laundry gets exposed.

b/c the CIA was using dead shows to distribute LSD, the beatles couldn't have possibly wrote their own music?? Huh

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01-17-2014, 02:06 PM (This post was last modified: 01-17-2014 02:08 PM by Daglord.)
Post: #50
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
i gotcha^. the reason why it shouldn't be completely dismissed.

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01-17-2014, 03:31 PM (This post was last modified: 01-18-2014 03:32 AM by Daglord.)
Post: #51
I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
I cant help but think if TPTB pushed the beatles to advance some agenda that they picked the wrong four guys. & for what purpose? i really don’t know. they were about as anti-war as anyone @ the time so that cant be it. but it also cant be for some controlled opposition of the protesting/movements b/c various political causes were always reaching out to them & others, & the beatles remained quiet while handfuls of other bands (like the stones & street fighting man) jumped aboard. finally fed up with the all the radicals trying to get their support with words, music or money to cause havoc in govt or society, john basically wrote revolution to tell them all to piss off.

mccartney was a family oriented guy, from a very religious family, who wrote mostly love songs & was about as big a humanitarian & animal activist as there is later on in life. this is the guy accused of writing mostly "granny music" or "silly love songs"

harrison was about as quiet and reserved as you can be as a rock star. Promoted self awareness, higher consciousness & to think for yourself. He kept mostly to himself & wasn't going to try & influence anyone.

ringo was ringo.

they stopped touring b/c they were tired of beatlemania & wanted to be left to just make music.

as for drugs, sounds like they had bands like the dead, Jefferson airplane & stones (to name a few) for that. The beatles were actually very coy about their drug use, only admitting it after being pushed to do so & then put the responsibility on the press on what to do with that info. they were not out promoting it. References (later on) were usually hidden for those 'in the know'. weed already had dylan (& others) singing its praises in song & interviews. dylan himself introduced it to them, stunned they hadn't tried it. of course, later on in late 60's they took out a full page ad to call for it's legalization. not sure how that fits in either.

& when leary was telling everyone to tune in & drop out, lennon replied w/the opposite & that you've got to "turn on and drop in, or they're going to drop all over you". beatles had mostly, publicly, denounced most drugs @ that point IIRC.

anyway, seems like a bad choice imo, though im not sure what they would be trying to accomplish by promoting the beatles. besides it being a distraction, which makes it no different than hundreds of other acts and the SOP procedure today. maybe a test of the impact a pop band can have? a bands ultimate influence on society? that's believable, not anything sinister, & doesn't necessarily make them a willing participant.

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01-18-2014, 02:07 AM (This post was last modified: 01-18-2014 03:53 AM by Daglord.)
Post: #52
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
thread needed some music. legendary last performance.




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01-18-2014, 10:34 AM
Post: #53
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
The Adorno theory came from Coleman, and then Alan Watt ran with it as if he'd come up with the idea on his own. This inspired dozens of websites and blogs to also run with it, so the theory now exists as a part of Beatles mythology. When I researched this, I firstly researched Tavistock and their sister groups, Stanford USA and the Frankfurt school. All had been doing extensive studies into the manipulation of culture, and Tavistock demonstrated this throughout the early 20th century with propaganda in the way of BBC radio serials and later, TV shows such as Coronation street, which were full of predictive programming. Young George Martin cut his teeth with the BBC, and then he mostly produced comedy records such as the hugely popular Goon show, which was all a part of the Tavistock programme.

Adorno, through his work at Frankfurt, and in the US, was associated with Tavistock, and he openly would talk about the "culture creation industry". His theories on popular music and the effect on people, would have been taken on board by Tavistock and applied where possible. I think that Coleman may have been partially correct about Adorno and the Beatles, in that his 12 atonal system was incorporated into their music, and that they were given massive assistance with creative inspiration from Tavistock via George Martin, who could simply say "hey guys, why don't we try this?", and then let them run with it.

I do think that they became too independant eventually, particularly Lennon and Harrison, but by that time it no longer mattered, the Beatles were the prototype, but by the mid to late 60s it was mass produced and turned into dozens of bands and other singers who could keep steering society down the path that the Beatles first showed them.

The Rolling Stones were also a creation by the same people, they took some talented guys and marketed them as the alternative to the Beatles, so many people took sides and only supported one band, not realising that either one was being used to influence them in the same way. Much like a musical version of the false left-right political paradigm.

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01-18-2014, 10:50 AM
Post: #54
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
Quote:The Rolling Stones were also a creation by the same people, they took some talented guys and marketed them as the alternative to the Beatles, so many people took sides and only supported one band, not realising that either one was being used to influence them in the same way. Much like a musical version of the false left-right political paradigm.

I don't remember where I heard it, but they said irl the Beatles were low class bumpkins from the shitty part of England, and the Stones were posh yuppies. The exact opposite of what was fed to the public.
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01-18-2014, 10:54 AM
Post: #55
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
This is what Adorno had to say about the Beatles.


Quote: In the book Adorno by Stefan Mueller-Doohm, this quote on page 420:

Adorno was keen to distinguish the Beatles from advanced modernity, whose condition could be measured by the progress of avant-garde art.
/quote Adorno:/ "What can be urged against the Beatles is simply that what these people have to offer is something that is retarded in terms of it's own objective content. It can be shown that the means of expression that are employed and preserved here are in reality no more than traditional techniques in a degraded form."
(Diskussion in the magazine Akzente, issue Summer 1965).

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01-18-2014, 11:42 AM
Post: #56
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
An interesting quote from Lennon's 1980 Playboy Interview.


Quote:We must always remember to thank the CIA and the Army for LSD. That's what people forget. Everything is the opposite of what it is, isn't it, Harry? So get out the bottle, boy... and relax. They invented LSD to control people and what they did was give us freedom.

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01-18-2014, 01:00 PM
Post: #57
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
(01-16-2014 11:22 PM)Redneck Wrote:  
(01-16-2014 09:06 AM)Megatherium Wrote:  Elvis had the screaming, fainting girls long before the Beatles ever did. The Greasy King was definitely the first of these 'shocking' youth culture figures.

And Frank Sinatra before him, with one of the first words created to build a generation gap, "bobbysoxers". The data gained from observing the reactions to Sinatra, and later Presley, was used effectively to create the hype that surrounded the Beatles.


In the movie Help, Ringo has a ring that a mystical occult order need for a human sacrifice ritual, in one scene a man grabs Ringo's finger, looks at the ring, and then says to Ringo, "Freemason?".

I think the relevance of Ringo Star's name is that it could be a reference to Saturn.


In order to create the Beatles hype, the handlers had to make sure the public was desperate for something, so they killed the Rock n Roll
movement, which they had originally started. Buddy Holly (Lennon & McCartney's idol), Richie Valens and JP 'The Big Bopper' Richardson, were all taken out in a plane crash, Jerry Lee Lewis was arrested on a trumped up statutory rape charge and his career was ruined, Elvis joined the army and disappeared for a while but when he came out, he was never the same performer, he had lost something, like his mind was no longer clear. The opportunity for new stars to emerge was huge.

When the Beatles first appeared on the scene, they were doing a lot of covers from the Rock and Roll era, this helped to win them over with a lot of people, who were familiar with the songs. Then, slowly but surely, like a spider luring it's prey, they changed from wannabe Rock n Rollers to the most sophisticated pop band of their time within a very short time span. Their entire recording career lasted less than 10 years, and yet the body of work they generated in that time is nothing short of amazing.


George Martin worked for the Government owned BBC for many years, and he was a commissioned officer in the Royal Navy. He is reported to have dismissed the Beatles as unpromising when he heard them, but something must've made him change his mind and record them.

Check out who owns the rights to Buddy Holly's songs today.

I'm just writing random stuff as it comes to mind, I did research this for a long time, but not everything is fresh in my mind. I'll post more stuff as it comes back to me.

Absolutely right. Even Bing before Frank, was pushed at young girls in this way, using the mass media of the day.The target is always the same; the ultra-vulnerable teenage females.

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01-18-2014, 05:47 PM
Post: #58
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
(01-18-2014 10:34 AM)Redneck Wrote:  The Adorno theory came from Coleman, and then Alan Watt ran with it as if he'd come up with the idea on his own. This inspired dozens of websites and blogs to also run with it, so the theory now exists as a part of Beatles mythology. When I researched this, I firstly researched Tavistock and their sister groups, Stanford USA and the Frankfurt school. All had been doing extensive studies into the manipulation of culture, and Tavistock demonstrated this throughout the early 20th century with propaganda in the way of BBC radio serials and later, TV shows such as Coronation street, which were full of predictive programming. Young George Martin cut his teeth with the BBC, and then he mostly produced comedy records such as the hugely popular Goon show, which was all a part of the Tavistock programme.

calling coleman/adorno a part of beatles mythology is a stretch imo.

Quote:I do think that they became too independant eventually, particularly Lennon and Harrison, but by that time it no longer mattered, the Beatles were the prototype, but by the mid to late 60s it was mass produced and turned into dozens of bands and other singers who could keep steering society down the path that the Beatles first showed them.

im still not sure what that path is…. all you need is love? give peace a chance? think for yourself?

Quote:The Rolling Stones were also a creation by the same people, they took some talented guys and marketed them as the alternative to the Beatles, so many people took sides and only supported one band, not realising that either one was being used to influence them in the same way. Much like a musical version of the false left-right political paradigm.

using the term created takes alot of credit away from the members of the bands imo. again, i don’t think its any different than what managers & record labels have done, still do & are prob supposed to do for their artists. & im not a huge stones fan, but brian jones was a genius. im familiar with colemans theory & all it entails, & even heard it including him as writing the stones songs as well, as others from the brit invasion. even more ridiculous than him writing all the beatles songs.

i agree somewhat, but im not sure if they marketed themselves so much as the stones saw an opportunity to be the anti beatles. They were some crazy motherfuckers anyway, why not run with it? epstein was trying his hardest to make the beatles family friendly, stones prob saw an opportunity to make their niche. There is always a yang to the ying. *& it is great marketing. funny thing is, the bands were friendly mostly throughout their careers & laughed at it, playing on each others records.

funny how fans will break into camps, but that can and does happen naturally – especially when they come from around same area @ around the same time. doesn't have to be all about a conspiracy. same shit happened with nirvana & pearl jam.

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01-18-2014, 07:13 PM (This post was last modified: 01-19-2014 07:15 AM by Daglord.)
Post: #59
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
(01-18-2014 10:34 AM)Redneck Wrote:  Adorno, through his work at Frankfurt, and in the US, was associated with Tavistock, and he openly would talk about the "culture creation industry". His theories on popular music and the effect on people, would have been taken on board by Tavistock and applied where possible. I think that Coleman may have been partially correct about Adorno and the Beatles, in that his 12 atonal system was incorporated into their music, and that they were given massive assistance with creative inspiration from Tavistock via George Martin, who could simply say "hey guys, why don't we try this?", and then let them run with it.

george martin is EASILY the 5th beatle imo, & ive praised the shit out of him here in this thread. but he would prob tell you that he learned as much from the beatles as they did him. he wasn’t writing lyrics or providing the meaning of songs, or adding any subliminal programming. He worked with the band like any other producer would. albeit, one with vast musical knowledge, talent, great contacts and free run of a full studio. im sure he tried like hell for the boys to succeed & sounds like he enjoyed the hell out of it. Cool

i don't really grasp this 12 atonal stuff. i tried, but i don't think its gonna happen. what do you know about it? how is it going to be used for mass mind control? i can also google & find this stuff like this:

Quote:I once was at a meeting where Coleman's book "The Committee of 300" was for sale. I opened it up and read that Dean Rusk was the head of the
State Department at the beginning of the Korean War and that it was his fault, etc. I, of course, realized the guy must have meant Dean Acheson
(sp?). Then I flipped to another page which had the info on the Beatles. I don't remember him saying that Adorno wrote all this music, etc. but
it did say that the Beatles music was "atonal". I was trained in music and I know atonal music. No music by the Beatles that I know of was
atonal. Atonal means without a tonal center. The beatles music had a clear tonal center. In fact, one might complain that it was "too tonal".
That is, it so centered on one key that some might find it boring for that reason. Gershwin's music would be more accurately described as
atonal since he changed keys very often (though his music is not atonal either). So, Coleman was batting 0 for 2. I moved on.

so yeah, either side doesn't really do it for me. especially being that george martin was a known classical enthusiast & accomplished scholar of all kinds of music. he would have had to have heard, and maybe been influenced by, someone like ardono. even if it is in some rare, 12 atonal system (fuck knows? i don't) i still don't see how that has to mean he was writing the beatles catalog.

& stuff like this is everywhere:





that's martin talking about how it was quite normal to get songs from publishers for your artists & how the beatles rejected that idea for their debut album. they didn't come from nowhere, they had a huge following in hamburg & liverpool. they were pretty confident in their act by then & wanted to do it with their music. that was pretty much going against the system @ that time.

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01-18-2014, 08:18 PM (This post was last modified: 01-18-2014 08:19 PM by Daglord.)
Post: #60
RE: I AM THE WALRUS! The Official Beatles Conspiracy Thread
seems to me that ardono doesn't think very highly of pop or rock music & most def does not consider it art. Simple, repetitive, boring. imo, that doesn't sound anything like beatles music. They were one of the most, if not THE most, experimental bands ever.

doesn't really sound much like a guy who would be writing for them either, or blasting his own work Undecided

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