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Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
09-08-2021, 04:33 AM
Post: #16
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
The Panjshir is said to be easy to conquer but hard to hold. It's a Tajik area so the Taliban will never be popular there.

*By the way, I just learned that only three percent of the Afghan army the US built was ethnically Pashtun. Three percent! No wonder it had no support.
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09-08-2021, 05:02 AM
Post: #17
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
Quote:A senior official of the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan confirmed that the Taliban had captured the valley, which was neither conquered by the Taliban in the 1990s nor by the Soviet Union in its nearly decade-long occupation in the 1980s. “Yes, Panjshir has fallen. Taliban took control of government offices. Taliban fighters entered into the governor’s house,” said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.
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But on Twitter, the NRF said its forces remained “in all strategic positions across the valley to continue the fight” and that the “Taliban’s claim of occupying Panjshir is false.”
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Meanwhile, at a news conference in Kabul, [Taliban spokesman]Mujahid said that Afghan troops who had been trained by Western governments in the past two decades would be asked to rejoin the country’s security forces alongside Taliban fighters. Some Afghan soldiers are among those who fled to Panjshir after the Taliban seized Kabul last month.

“The forces that were trained by the previous government must rejoin,” he said. “In the upcoming system, all the forces that were previously trained and are professional will be reintegrated with our forces, because our country needs a strong army.”
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On Monday, meanwhile, the State Department helped four U.S. citizens leave Afghanistan over ground, a senior State Department official said, marking the first overland evacuation it has facilitated since the U.S. military withdrew from Afghanistan last week. The Taliban was aware of the operation and did not impede their safe passage, said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive mission.
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In Mazar-e Sharif, airplanes with Americans and interpreters have been waiting on the ground for days amid conflicting reports that they are being held up either by the Taliban or awaiting State Department clearance for departure.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/202...n-updates/
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09-08-2021, 06:17 AM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2021 06:18 AM by Rako.)
Post: #18
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
Megatherium,
That's a good point about the Tajiks rejecting Taliban rule. But it's not easy to say in general that the Panjshir is easy to conquer, because it did not fall under the Soviets nor under the Taliban in the 1990's.
You made good remarks in your second paragraph.
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09-08-2021, 09:37 AM
Post: #19
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
You also make a good point about the Panjshir and Soviets and Taliban Rako.

I could have worded that better, suffice to say I think the Taliban may have their hands full holding onto it. Smile
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09-08-2021, 03:29 PM
Post: #20
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
(09-04-2021 03:00 PM)rezin Wrote:  Who exactly is flying that helicopter, cause we know it's not the talis.

It could have been the Pakis or the Chinese I suppose.

But my guess is that it was a US trained helicopter pilot from the US funded Afghani Airforce.



[Image: 210px-Emblem_of_the_Afghan_Air_Force.svg.png]



Biden did not only leave the Taliban with billions of dollars in weapons and equipment. He also left them an Army and an Airforce of almost 200,000 people.

The Taliban will have no problems finding the people needed to drive and operate the Tanks and the Aircraft.

I'm just trying to figure this shit out like you are.
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09-09-2021, 02:22 AM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2021 02:25 AM by Rako.)
Post: #21
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
I think it's weird. If the tajiks and other non Pashtuns make up the Afghan army, why did it collapse? In 20 years, the US could not make a strong enough national army there? 200,000 soldiers is a lot. 300 Spartans were able to fend off the Persian army in ancient times. It's not enough to say that Afghan people are too weak or unskilled to fight, because after all, the Taliban are also Afghan.
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09-09-2021, 02:36 AM
Post: #22
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
(09-09-2021 02:22 AM)Rako Wrote:  I think it's weird. If the tajiks and other non Pashtuns make up the Afghan army, why did it collapse? In 20 years, the US could not make a strong enough national army there? 200,000 soldiers is a lot. 300 Spartans were able to fend off the Persian army in ancient times. It's not enough to say that Afghan people are too weak or unskilled to fight, because after all, the Taliban are also Afghan.

Don't forget the opium fields there. From what I've read many of the Afghan Army were drug abusers. Up to 85% I read. Supposedly every pay day many of them wouldn' teven show up for 2 or 3 days afterward. It just sounds like they weren't fit for service.

“One crowded hour of glorious life is worth an age without a name” - Walter Scott
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09-09-2021, 03:41 AM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2021 03:48 AM by Rako.)
Post: #23
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
There has to be truth in what you are saying.

But it's still a little confusing how this situation occurred. The other Central Asian countries are able to make armies. The Afghans it seems had 200k people in uniform, but no real fighting force.

But in the 1990s, there were militias fighting the Taliban. It seems that the nonTaliban became even weaker after 20 years of US occupation than before. It's weird. There must be some information that is not common public knowledge explaining the army's total collapse. I guess it could be that they were 85 percent drug users unfit for service and that the US wasn't willing enough or capable of turning them into a real arny.

Supposedly 85 percent of Afghanis dont support the Taliban. It's a weird situation if they are incapable of resisting.
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09-09-2021, 03:48 AM
Post: #24
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
I kind of wondered if the capable Afghans may have gone and joined up with the Taliban and the non-capable (drug users) were left behind for the Afghan army.
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09-09-2021, 03:49 AM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2021 03:57 AM by Rako.)
Post: #25
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
Certainly there must have been cases of that. The Taliban has the upside of being anti opiates.
And Afghan national soldiers joining the Taliban would explain how they could learn to fly planes.

It's not clear to me how much Pakistan helped the Taliban in the last 20 years.

Probably US Intel has lots of inside information on all these topics and someone made lots of policy decisions over the years leading to this situation. And I would not be surprised if the US reinvades at some point following an event like 911. After all, the US fought Iraq twice in 10 years, and the Taliban seem comparable to what they were like in 2001. I am skeptical that they have reformed, or at least of how much they reformed.

And then there is the possibility that someone in the US wanted the Taliban to take over, based on what I voted earlier about US cooperation with the Taliban leaders, like against ISIS
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09-09-2021, 10:56 AM
Post: #26
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
(09-09-2021 02:22 AM)Rako Wrote:  I think it's weird. If the tajiks and other non Pashtuns make up the Afghan army, why did it collapse? In 20 years, the US could not make a strong enough national army there? 200,000 soldiers is a lot. 300 Spartans were able to fend off the Persian army in ancient times. It's not enough to say that Afghan people are too weak or unskilled to fight, because after all, the Taliban are also Afghan.

Most of the people in the Army and the Police Force only signed up to get a regular wage, very few of them actually supported the US occupation. Within that, there were huge rorts by the local leaders, who listed many names as members of people that did not exist. The local leaders pocketed thousands of dollars in salaries paid to the non-existent members. By August 2021 the real soldiers and police had not been paid for several months, and when the US suddenly started pulling out, they felt like they'd been left with no support or back-up, so they all walked off.

I'm just trying to figure this shit out like you are.
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09-09-2021, 12:07 PM
Post: #27
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
Good explanation.
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09-09-2021, 12:22 PM
Post: #28
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan

Several explanations have been posited for the rapid collapse of the Afghan Army and police forces. In Politico, British journalist Anatol Lieven, wrote of the “agreement” tendency of factions in Afghanistan—where opposing factions may agree not to fight. Talks between the Taliban and Afghan have been ongoing for months, and rival commanders may often have relatives fighting on either side—a helpful insurance that lets soldiers pick the winning side rather than dying for a cause they may not believe in. The effect of this is often a bloodless surrender, which is what was seen across Afghanistan as several government forces backed down without a fight.

“Kabul was captured intact by the mujahedeen in 1992, as it is being captured by the Taliban now,” Lieven writes.

What could explain the low morale of Afghan forces—that of the men at least—that made them unwilling to fight the Taliban, their long-time enemy?

The opium plant appears as another explanation.

From the very beginning of the International Security Assistance Force’s (ISAF) attempts to train the Afghan military to fight independent of their support, the signs were there that this army had no cohesion, unethical and unwilling leadership, and perhaps worst of all, a drug problem.

In the 2013 documentary, This is What Winning Looks Like, filmmaker Ben Anderson showed numerous instances of Afghan soldiers being too stoned on marijuana and opium (which grows freely around even police bases) to perform routine tasks. By 2015, the UN estimated there were between 1.9 million to 2.4 million drug addicts in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan is the world’s biggest opiate supplier, with the opium trade being among the main sources of income for the Taliban.

2020 saw a 37 per cent increase in the amount of land allocated to poppy cultivation, according to the UN Office on Drugs and Crime. This growth was driven by a combination of political instability, droughts and floods alike, and declining employment opportunities.

But besides agreements and drug deals lies another factor that aided the Afghan Army’s defeat, a factor as old as warfare itself: Logistics.

During the 1842 retreat of British forces from Kabul during the Anglo-Afghan war, an entire British force of around 16,000 troops and civilians was annihilated. A retreat in the harsh Afghan winter saw them run out of food, and unable to traverse the harsh terrain.

Though it was not winter when the Afghan Army collapsed, logistics played a major rule. When Dawlat Abad fell, despite a pitched effort by Afghan Special Forces to hold the town, the fighting ultimately ended when these soldiers ran out of ammunition. What followed was a war crime: The Taliban executed all of the men.

In rural parts of Afghanistan, troops were short on both food and bullets. As a New York Times report noted, “As positions collapsed, the complaint was almost always the same: There was no air support, or they had run out of supplies and food.”

By contrast, the Taliban enjoyed strong logistical support. Afghanistan's UN envoy told the UN Security Council that the Taliban were backed by supply lines extending all the way to Pakistan, with reports and videos of Taliban fighters congregating close to the Durand Line and even having their injured fighters treated in Pakistani hospitals.


https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2021/0...liban.html
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09-09-2021, 12:38 PM
Post: #29
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
Local Afghan warlords inflated the numbers of their troops by orders of magnitude and pocketed the money themselves. This mirrored the behavior of the weapons contractors who dumped many more armaments into the country than was agreed and this was the reason it was all left behind; to avoid a real accounting of the sheer volume of weaponry dumped into the country. The whole war was a huge racket.
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09-09-2021, 12:43 PM
Post: #30
RE: Hitler reacts to the fall of Afghanistan
These guys served in Afghanistan as officers and they spill the beans about the whole racket in this video.

A very informative listen.




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