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Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
10-12-2020, 04:55 PM
Post: #1
Come for the ladies, stay for the music.



Those who know, know! Big Grin
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10-13-2020, 01:52 AM
Post: #2
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
Russian is a very sing songy kind of language. EY when you have the time watch this whole video. It's absolutely worth the 20 minutes.




! This post was funded by the goverment of the Russian Federation !
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10-13-2020, 02:01 AM
Post: #3
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
I'm a fan of Russian Literature.

So I'm slowly learning more about the country's history and culture.

Thanks.
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10-13-2020, 05:16 PM
Post: #4
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
(10-13-2020 01:52 AM)rezin Wrote:  Russian is a very sing songy kind of language. EY when you have the time watch this whole video. It's absolutely worth the 20 minutes.




Thanks for the vid.

The west has effectively brainwashed people into believing russians are just dumb drunks through decades of hollywood programming.

Only now are they starting to realize the mystical power of the Russian people.

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10-14-2020, 02:43 AM
Post: #5
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
(10-13-2020 05:16 PM)pug-thug Wrote:  
(10-13-2020 01:52 AM)rezin Wrote:  Russian is a very sing songy kind of language. EY when you have the time watch this whole video. It's absolutely worth the 20 minutes.




Thanks for the vid.

The west has effectively brainwashed people into believing russians are just dumb drunks through decades of hollywood programming.

Only now are they starting to realize the mystical power of the Russian people.

Worse, they were able to conflate Russians with Communism.
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10-14-2020, 03:53 AM
Post: #6
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
(10-13-2020 01:52 AM)rezin Wrote:  This post was funded by the goverment of the Russian Federation !

Do you personally agree with Ludwig Von Mises that Soviet Communist was really just underground Capitalism?
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10-14-2020, 05:52 AM
Post: #7
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
^ I don't know who Ludwig Von Mises is, and I do not know what he means when he says that its underground Capitalism.

But I don't look at things in terms of brands. Communism this, Capitalism that.

I care about the results achieved in the real world (not a clean sterile room) and I look at them in the context of their time.

Capitalism has different qualities to it depending on the assigned role a country or region has, and on scale.

Is the country assigned to be a resource colony or is it meant to be a nice, calm, comfortable place to be. Somebody is deciding things on a Global level, things are not happening by themselves.

Soviet Comunism was different things at different times. The Stalinist system was very different from the Marxist system than came after.

There were many different fractions within the Russian Empire and later Soviet Union that had different view as to how things should be in Russia and the world, and what role Russia should have in the world. Some fractions within the Russian Empire constantly made decisions that made Russia weaker, including decision made personaly by some Tsars. In the Soviet Union, Trotsky (and his followers) for example wanted to burn up Russia as fuel for the Global Marxist Revolution, where as Lenin, Stalin, Beria were trying to save Russia and build a just society in their own country (regardless of socio-economic system the Russians have a deeply ingrained sense of justice)

In order to understand how and why the Soviet Union was created, you have to understand the very nature of reality itself. Explaining one event, you then have to explain another event, and then the event that caused it. And the one that caused that one. And so on and so on.

You also have to understand how different fractions with different goals can coexist within the same system (and even exist on the same element of a system)

Its an absolutely massive puzzle that is made all the more difficult because of all the lies and/or omissions told for over a century. Lies upon lies. And then more and more lies. Lies at a granular level. The amount of effort to slander the Soviets is actually quite impressive. But given the importance of the event in the history of human civilization, it makes sense that the effort would be worth it.

My view is that regardless of various faults, the Soviet Union was a force that gave people all around the globe more humane living and working conditions. Including in the West.

Anyway its a long topic. Maybe some day I'll write up a little something about who the Bolsheviks actually were, and how the Soviet Union actually came to be.

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10-14-2020, 06:57 AM
Post: #8
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
" My view is that regardless of various faults, the Soviet Union was a force that gave people all around the globe more humane living and working conditions. Including in the West. "

After they starved all the Orthodox Christians in 1921 and then in the Holodomor of the 30s, maybe.
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10-16-2020, 05:42 AM
Post: #9
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
(10-14-2020 05:52 AM)rezin Wrote:  ^ I don't know who Ludwig Von Mises is, and I do not know what he means when he says that its underground Capitalism.

But I don't look at things in terms of brands. Communism this, Capitalism that.

I care about the results achieved in the real world (not a clean sterile room) and I look at them in the context of their time.

Capitalism has different qualities to it depending on the assigned role a country or region has, and on scale.

Is the country assigned to be a resource colony or is it meant to be a nice, calm, comfortable place to be. Somebody is deciding things on a Global level, things are not happening by themselves.

Soviet Comunism was different things at different times. The Stalinist system was very different from the Marxist system than came after.

There were many different fractions within the Russian Empire and later Soviet Union that had different view as to how things should be in Russia and the world, and what role Russia should have in the world. Some fractions within the Russian Empire constantly made decisions that made Russia weaker, including decision made personaly by some Tsars. In the Soviet Union, Trotsky (and his followers) for example wanted to burn up Russia as fuel for the Global Marxist Revolution, where as Lenin, Stalin, Beria were trying to save Russia and build a just society in their own country (regardless of socio-economic system the Russians have a deeply ingrained sense of justice)

In order to understand how and why the Soviet Union was created, you have to understand the very nature of reality itself. Explaining one event, you then have to explain another event, and then the event that caused it. And the one that caused that one. And so on and so on.

You also have to understand how different fractions with different goals can coexist within the same system (and even exist on the same element of a system)

Its an absolutely massive puzzle that is made all the more difficult because of all the lies and/or omissions told for over a century. Lies upon lies. And then more and more lies. Lies at a granular level. The amount of effort to slander the Soviets is actually quite impressive. But given the importance of the event in the history of human civilization, it makes sense that the effort would be worth it.

My view is that regardless of various faults, the Soviet Union was a force that gave people all around the globe more humane living and working conditions. Including in the West.

Anyway its a long topic. Maybe some day I'll write up a little something about who the Bolsheviks actually were, and how the Soviet Union actually came to be.

Thanks for the insight again, rezin. Von Mises' theory is that it's impossible to calculate value without the free market. You wouldn't be able to put a price tag on a product without supply/demand dynamics, as a product is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.
In communism there were no prices, in theory, but each citizen had entitlements for certain products which worked in a similar way. So Von Mises concluded that there was no actual planned economy in the USSR because it's impossible to fully micromanage an economy of that scale. So in the USSR anything beyond oil, space and the military industrial complex, which were state owned, was just normal market economy . The state didn't own every fruit stand, those were private business but they were taxed up the ass. "Underground capitalism"/
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10-16-2020, 05:56 AM
Post: #10
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.


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10-16-2020, 06:09 AM
Post: #11
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
(10-16-2020 05:42 AM)CTsar Wrote:  
(10-14-2020 05:52 AM)rezin Wrote:  ^ I don't know who Ludwig Von Mises is, and I do not know what he means when he says that its underground Capitalism.

But I don't look at things in terms of brands. Communism this, Capitalism that.

I care about the results achieved in the real world (not a clean sterile room) and I look at them in the context of their time.

Capitalism has different qualities to it depending on the assigned role a country or region has, and on scale.

Is the country assigned to be a resource colony or is it meant to be a nice, calm, comfortable place to be. Somebody is deciding things on a Global level, things are not happening by themselves.

Soviet Comunism was different things at different times. The Stalinist system was very different from the Marxist system than came after.

There were many different fractions within the Russian Empire and later Soviet Union that had different view as to how things should be in Russia and the world, and what role Russia should have in the world. Some fractions within the Russian Empire constantly made decisions that made Russia weaker, including decision made personaly by some Tsars. In the Soviet Union, Trotsky (and his followers) for example wanted to burn up Russia as fuel for the Global Marxist Revolution, where as Lenin, Stalin, Beria were trying to save Russia and build a just society in their own country (regardless of socio-economic system the Russians have a deeply ingrained sense of justice)

In order to understand how and why the Soviet Union was created, you have to understand the very nature of reality itself. Explaining one event, you then have to explain another event, and then the event that caused it. And the one that caused that one. And so on and so on.

You also have to understand how different fractions with different goals can coexist within the same system (and even exist on the same element of a system)

Its an absolutely massive puzzle that is made all the more difficult because of all the lies and/or omissions told for over a century. Lies upon lies. And then more and more lies. Lies at a granular level. The amount of effort to slander the Soviets is actually quite impressive. But given the importance of the event in the history of human civilization, it makes sense that the effort would be worth it.

My view is that regardless of various faults, the Soviet Union was a force that gave people all around the globe more humane living and working conditions. Including in the West.

Anyway its a long topic. Maybe some day I'll write up a little something about who the Bolsheviks actually were, and how the Soviet Union actually came to be.

Thanks for the insight again, rezin. Von Mises' theory is that it's impossible to calculate value without the free market. You wouldn't be able to put a price tag on a product without supply/demand dynamics, as a product is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.
In communism there were no prices, in theory, but each citizen had entitlements for certain products which worked in a similar way. So Von Mises concluded that there was no actual planned economy in the USSR because it's impossible to fully micromanage an economy of that scale. So in the USSR anything beyond oil, space and the military industrial complex, which were state owned, was just normal market economy . The state didn't own every fruit stand, those were private business but they were taxed up the ass. "Underground capitalism"/

cool discussion

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10-16-2020, 09:52 AM
Post: #12
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
(10-13-2020 01:52 AM)rezin Wrote:  Russian is a very sing songy kind of language. EY when you have the time watch this whole video. It's absolutely worth the 20 minutes.



It sounds like the song is being played over the video sounds.
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10-16-2020, 10:09 AM (This post was last modified: 10-16-2020 10:45 AM by Rako.)
Post: #13
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
(10-12-2020 04:55 PM)pug-thug Wrote:  


"Spring Doesn't Come for Me" makes me "thrill" in a sad way. Emotional sad song.




With Scenes from Quiet Don. Performed by "Бабкины внуки"
It is more emotional when you know the words.
"Quiet Flows the Don" is already an epic, emotional story. Probably it was written by a White Russian emigre and then the Soviet writer Sholokhov added to it.

Here is a Cossacks' choir performing it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wy0u7rL...jimmakos61

There are a couple other Cossack songs that have this kind of style of melody or genre like Когда мы были на войне (When we were in war)- in that one, the horse of the cossack leads him out of his fatal situation so that he doesn't get killed.

Another one is "Там шли два брата" (Two brothers went there) and


"На поле танки грохотали" Tanks rumbled on the field.

Another one is Pesnya o Schorse (Song about Schors), which is like that, and is taken from the Red POV.
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10-16-2020, 10:46 AM
Post: #14
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
Here "Spring Doesn't Come for Me" is played during the movie "Sunstroke". The director Mikhalkov sings it in the background:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSCp8L_U...0%BE%D0%B2

The movie Sunstroke seems an interesting, somewhat paranormal or supernatural, or spiritual movie that demands some kind of interpretation. Often, deep movies do. I had a hard time tracking down an interpretation of it.

In the pre-1917 events, a lieutenant impresses a pretty, married, somewhat older woman with kids on a steamboat, as a result of a magic trick. A magician gave a show where he secretly switches pocketwatches with him in the trick. That night he has an affair with her in a one night tryst. In looking for a hotel for the tryst, he makes friends with an altar boy. The next morning the woman left on a steamship and he chases after the ship. The altar boy asks about the theory of Evolution, wherein humans are basically just animals. The lieutenant doesn't have an answer because he is thinking about the woman. He leaves the watch with the boy. The lieutenant jumps into the river trying to swim after it, and the boy runs and calls after him that he forgot his watch.

In the post-1917 Civil War events, the lieutenant is thinking back over his past, trying to figure out what happened, how his life turned out this way. He is in a POW camp run by the victors of a battle. One of the assistant camp leaders is the past altar boy who joined the Reds later in life. The past altar boy doesn't reveal his identity. The lady, a military official who runs the prison camp, gives the altar boy a stern warning after the ex-altar boy arranged a fun photo for the prisoners. So you get a sense that he secretly would like to help the prisoners but he can't due to the power of the chain of authority.

The military leaders tell the POWs that the POWs are going on a barge to France as exile. On the barge, another prisoner gives the lieutenant the pocketwatch from the ex-altar boy. It means that all along the altar boy remembered the watch and cherished memories of the lieutenant as his friend from his childhood. Probably the boy did not have much of a family or people who took attention to him as a child. The lieutenant then realizes the camp assistant leader's identity and tries to call out to him, but of course he can't be heard because the barge is locked and far away. The lieutenant waves goodbye with a wide wave, which is apparently a signal to the towboat leading the barge to sink the barge.

The events in the first story seem linked enough in the second to suggest that there is some kind of synchronicity or paranormal work going on. For example, the magician's pocketwatch runs between the two events, and both sets of stories end with a boat (steamship or barge).
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10-16-2020, 12:53 PM
Post: #15
RE: Come for the ladies, stay for the music.
(10-16-2020 05:42 AM)CTsar Wrote:  Thanks for the insight again, rezin. Von Mises' theory is that it's impossible to calculate value without the free market. You wouldn't be able to put a price tag on a product without supply/demand dynamics, as a product is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.
In communism there were no prices, in theory, but each citizen had entitlements for certain products which worked in a similar way. So Von Mises concluded that there was no actual planned economy in the USSR because it's impossible to fully micromanage an economy of that scale. So in the USSR anything beyond oil, space and the military industrial complex, which were state owned, was just normal market economy . The state didn't own every fruit stand, those were private business but they were taxed up the ass. "Underground capitalism"/

Here's a little article about Soviet artels. (translation is little wonky, but good enough) https://en.topwar.ru/169394-pochemu-hrus...rteli.html

The destruction of these artels by Hrushchov meant that the Russian population had less comfort in their lives compared to Western countries, despite having a juggernaut of an economy.




Quote:Why Khrushchev destroyed the Stalinist artels
March 25 2020


A lot of "black myths" were created about the Stalinist USSR, which created negative impressions of Soviet civilization in people. One of these myths is a lie about the "total nationalization" of the national economy under the USSR and Stalin. Under Stalin, private initiative flourished. Numerous artels and single handicraftsmen worked in the Union. Khrushchev already destroyed this very useful sphere of activity for the people and the people.

Artels under Stalin

It is believed that under socialism, the command-administrative and planning system, entrepreneurship is impossible. It is known that during the reign of NEP (the new economic policy), cooperatives and cooperatives flourished and produced the bulk of consumer goods. True, at this time there was a spike in the speculative capital of the new bourgeois (NEPMAN) and the Soviet bureaucracy. That is, corruption schemes flourished.

It seemed that under Stalin, when NEP had been covered up, they had been collectivized and industrialized, cooperative cooperatives would disappear. However, it was the other way around. In the Stalinist empire, entrepreneurship experienced a new heyday. Small production in the Stalinist USSR was a very strong and visible sector of the national economy. Artels during World War II even produced weapon and ammunition. That is, they possessed high technologies and their own production facilities. In the USSR, production and trade cooperatives supported in every way possible. Already in the course of the 1st five-year plan, the growth of the members of the artels by 2,6 times was outlined.

In 1941, the Soviet government protected the cooperatives from undue interference by the authorities, pointed to the mandatory election leadership of production cooperatives at all levels and for two years exempted enterprises from all taxes and state control over retail pricing. However, retail prices should not exceed state prices for similar products by more than 10–13%. It should be noted that state-owned enterprises were in worse conditions, since they did not have benefits. So that the economic management could not “crush” the cooperatives, the authorities determined the prices of raw materials, equipment, transportation costs, for storage in warehouses and retail facilities. Thus, the scope for corruption has been greatly narrowed.

Even during the most difficult conditions of the war, the cooperatives retained a significant part of the concessions. And after the war ended, during the recovery period they were expanded again. The development of cooperatives was considered an important state task - that cooperatives help in the restoration of the state. In particular, privileges were given to enterprises where people with disabilities worked, of which there were many after the war. Many former front-line soldiers were entrusted with organizing new artels in various settlements and places.

New life of the ancient Russian tradition

In fact, under Stalin, artels got a new life, went to a new level of development. This continued the ancient production tradition of Russian society. Artel production communities have been an important part of the economic life of Russia-Russia since ancient times. The artel principle of labor organization has been known in Russia since the time of the empire of the first Rurikovich. Obviously, it existed before, in pre-recorded times. Artels were known under different names: squad, gang, brother, brotherhood, etc. In ancient Russia, such communities could fulfill both military and production functions. It happened that entire villages and communities organized a common artel (they fished together, built ships, etc.). The essence is always the same - the work is performed by a group of people who are equal in rights with each other. Their principle is one for all, all for one. For organizational matters the prince-voivode, the chieftain-hetman, the master, chosen by the full-fledged community members, decides. All members of the cooperative do their job, actively support each other. There is no principle of human exploitation by man, enrichment of one or several members of the community at the expense of the bulk of workers.

Thus, from time immemorial, a communal, conciliar principle prevailed on Russian soil, which was part of the Russian worldview and outlook. He helped to beat enemies, and quickly recover from military or socio-economic disasters-troubles, and to build an empire-power in the most severe conditions. It is worth remembering that in our harsh northern conditions, only this principle helped to create the greatest empire-power.

Under Stalin, who de facto revived the Russian empire-power, this most important Russian production tradition was not only preserved, but also received a new impetus for development. Artel took an important place in Soviet society. After the red emperor, 114 thousand workshops and cooperatives of various directions remained in the country. About 2 million people worked in metalworking, jewelry, in the food, textile and chemical industries, woodworking, and so on. Artel cooperatives. They produced about 6% of the country's gross industrial output. In particular, cooperatives produced a significant part of furniture, metal utensils, knitwear, children's toys, etc. As a result, the private sector made a great contribution to the development of light industry, providing the people with consumer goods. Artels produced practically all the objects and goods necessary in ordinary life in the most problematic sector of the national economy of the USSR. What was connected with the priority of the development of heavy industry, mechanical engineering and the military-industrial complex (the question of the survival of civilization and the people). And during the war years, the private sector established the production of weapons from ready-made components, manufactured boxes for ammunition, ammunition for soldiers and horses, etc.

Interestingly, the private sector was not only engaged in production. In the private sphere, dozens of design bureaus, experimental laboratories, and even two research institutes worked. That is, there was a research department, Soviet artels were not a relic of feudal times. Soviet artels produced advanced products. For example, the Leningrad artel “Progress-Radio” produced the first tube receivers in the USSR (1930), the first radio sets (1935), and the first TVs with a cathode ray tube (1939). In this area, there was even a private (non-state!) Pension system. Artels also carried out financial activities: they provided loans to their members for the purchase of equipment, tools, for the construction of housing, the purchase of livestock, etc.

Also in the private sector, general progress was noted for the Soviet state. So, the Leningrad enterprise "Joiner-builder", which in the 1920s produced sleighs, wheels, clamps, etc., in the 50s became known as "Radio Operator" and became a major manufacturer of furniture and radio equipment. The Gatchina artel “Jupiter”, which produced various household trifles, tools in the 20s and 40s, manufactured dishes, drills, presses and washing machines in the early 50s. And there were many such examples. That is, private enterprises, their capabilities grew together with the Soviet Union.

As a result, in the USSR during the Stalin period, entrepreneurship was not only not infringed, but, on the contrary, was encouraged. It was an important sector of the national economy and was actively developed and improved. It is also important to note that productive entrepreneurship was growing, and not parasitic-speculative trading, which bred in the years of NEP, recovered during the Gorbachev “catastrophe” and liberal, destructive reforms of the 1990s. Under Stalin's “totalitarianism,” private initiative and creativity were encouraged in every way, since this was to the advantage of the power and the people. Private enterprises made the economy of the USSR more stable. At the same time, Soviet entrepreneurs were protected by the Soviet state, they forgot about such a problem as the merging of the bureaucracy with organized crime, about the danger of crime.

Stalin and his associates well understood the importance of private initiative in the economy of the country and the life of the people. They thwarted the attempts of the dogmatists of Marxism-Leninism to destroy and nationalize this sector. In particular, in the All-Union discussion in 1951, the economist Dmitry Shepilov (at the suggestion of Stalin, he was appointed head of the team for the creation of the first textbook on the political economy of socialism in the USSR) and the USSR Minister of Light Industry and chairman of the Trade Council under the USSR Council of Ministers Alexei Kosygin defended the freedom of artels and personal plots of collective farmers. The same idea can be noted in Stalin's work “Economic problems of socialism in the USSR” (1952).

Thus, contrary to the anti-Soviet, anti-Russian myth (under "bloody Stalin" people were only robbed), everything was the other way around. The people were robbed under feudalism and capitalism. Under Stalinist socialism, a system of honest, productive business was formed and worked perfectly (tested by the most terrible war). And not a mercantile speculative, usurious-parasitic, as in Russia since the capital’s victory. Entrepreneurs were protected from abuse and extortion of corrupt officials, pressure and parasitism of bankers-money-lenders and the criminal world. Under the Red Emperor, private enterprise organically supplemented the public sector.


[Image: 1585079705_17tn1-tv-pas.jpg]
Before the war, the Radstel cooperative produced about 2000 models of the 17TN-1 TV


[Image: 1585079839_io1i1d8377.jpg]
Artel "Photo-Trud" (branch of EFTE, later - a separate artel "Arfo") produced the first Soviet serial cameras

Khrushchev

Khrushchev arranged “perestroika-1” in the country and inflicted several heavy, almost fatal blows on the Russian (Soviet) power and the people. He abandoned the Stalinist course of development, which turned the USSR into the advanced civilization of mankind. From building a society of service, knowledge and creation. The Soviet elite refused development, chose "stability", which ultimately led to the destruction of Soviet civilization.

The “Thaw” of Khrushchev destroyed the Stalinist system. On April 14, 1956, a decree of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and the Council of Ministers of the USSR “On the reorganization of trade cooperation” appeared, according to which the artel enterprises were transferred to the state. The property of enterprises was alienated free of charge. An exception was made only for small producers of household goods, art crafts and artels of the disabled. However, they were forbidden to independently carry out regular retail trade. Thus, Khrushchev staged a pogrom of private enterprises that were useful to the state and the people.

One of the negative manifestations of this pogrom was the famous Soviet deficit, which the post-Soviet rulers, officials and liberals constantly reproached the Soviet Union. Under Stalin, when tens of thousands of cooperative societies, hundreds of thousands of single handicraftsmen operated in the country, the people's food needs were met by collective-farm markets, individual peasants and collective farmers with household plots, there was no such problem. In the Stalinist USSR, the problem of a shortage of a product (usually it was food or household goods, that is, what artels specialized in) was solved at the local level.

The cooperatives in the USSR revived under Gorbachev, but basically it was no longer private production, but speculative, commercial and financial activity, which led not to the development of the country and the prosperity of the people, but to the enrichment of a narrow group of “new Russians”. The new bourgeois and capitalists who are living on the plunder of the USSR-Russia.

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