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LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
01-29-2020, 03:44 AM (This post was last modified: 01-29-2020 03:45 AM by pilgrim.)
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LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu


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01-29-2020, 03:46 AM
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RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
.
Talking about Trump's Palestine/Israel peace plan.
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01-29-2020, 04:49 AM
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RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu


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01-30-2020, 02:40 AM
Post: #4
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
.

Trump peace plan delights Israelis, enrages Palestinians

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump unveiled his long-awaited Mideast peace plan Tuesday alongside a beaming Benjamin Netanyahu, presenting a vision that matched the Israeli leader’s hard-line, nationalist views while falling far short of Palestinian ambitions.

Trump’s plan envisions a disjointed Palestinian state that turns over key parts of the West Bank to Israel. It sides with Israel on key contentious issues that have bedeviled past peace efforts, including borders and the status of Jerusalem and Jewish settlements, and attaches nearly impossible conditions for granting the Palestinians their hoped-for state.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas dismissed the plan as “nonsense” and vowed to resist it. Netanyahu called it a “historic breakthrough” equal in significance to the country’s declaration of independence in 1948.

“It’s a great plan for Israel. It’s a great plan for peace,” he said.

He vowed to immediately press forward with his plans to annex the strategic Jordan Valley and all the Israeli settlements in occupied lands. Netanyahu said he’d ask his Cabinet to approve the annexation plans in their next meeting on Sunday, an explosive move that could trigger harsh international reaction and renewed violence with the Palestinians.

“This dictates once and for all the eastern border of Israel,” Netanyahu told Israeli reporters later. “Israel is getting an immediate American recognition of Israeli sovereignty on all the settlements, without exceptions.”

Given the Palestinian opposition, the plan seems unlikely to lead to any significant breakthrough. But it could give a powerful boost to both Trump and Netanyahu who are both facing legal problems ahead of tough elections.

Trump called his plan a “win-win” for both Israel and the Palestinians, and urged the Palestinians not to miss their opportunity for independence. But Abbas, who accuses the U.S. of unfair bias toward Israel, rejected it out of hand.

“We say 1,000 no’s to the Deal of the Century,” Abbas said, using a nickname for Trump’s proposal.

“We will not kneel and we will not surrender,” he said, adding that the Palestinians would resist the plan through “peaceful, popular means.”

The plan comes amid Trump’s impeachment trial and on a U.S. election year, and after Netanyahu was indicted on counts of fraud, breach of trust and bribery in three separate cases. The longtime Israeli leader, who denies any wrongdoing, also faces a March 2 parliamentary election, Israel’s third in less than a year. He hopes to use the plan, and his close ties with Trump, to divert attention from his legal troubles.

The Palestinians seek all of the West Bank and east Jerusalem — areas captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war — for an independent state and the removal of many of the more than 700,000 Israeli settlers from these areas.

But as details emerged, it became clear that the plan sides heavily with Netanyahu’s hard-line nationalist vision for the region and shunts aside many of the Palestinians’ core demands.

Under the terms of the “peace vision” that Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner has been working on for nearly three years, all settlers would remain in place, and Israel would retain sovereignty over all of its settlements as well as the strategic Jordan Valley.

“The Israeli military will continue to control the entire territory,” Netanyahu said. “No one will be uprooted from their home.”

The proposed Palestinian state would also include more than a dozen Israeli “enclaves” with the entity’s borders monitored by Israel. It would be demilitarized and give Israel overall security control. In addition, the areas of east Jerusalem offered to the Palestinians consist of poor, crowded neighborhoods located behind a hulking concrete separation barrier.

Trump acknowledged that he has done a lot for Israel, but he said he wanted the deal to be a “great deal for the Palestinians.”

The plan would give the Palestinians limited control over an estimated 70% of the West Bank, nearly double the amount where they currently have limited self-rule. Trump said it would give them time needed to meet the challenges of statehood.

The only concession the plan appears to demand of Israel is a four-year freeze on the establishment of new Israeli settlements in certain areas of the West Bank. But Netanyahu clarified later that this only applied to areas where there are no settlements and Israel has no immediate plans to annex, and that he considered the plan to impose no limitations on construction.

Thousands of Palestinians protested in Gaza City ahead of the announcement, burning pictures of Trump and Netanyahu and raising a banner reading “Palestine is not for sale.”

Trump said he sent a letter to Abbas to tell him that the territory that the plan has set aside for a new Palestinian state will remain open and undeveloped for four years.

“It’s going to work,” Trump said, as he presented the plan at a White House ceremony filled with Israeli officials and allies, including evangelical Christian leaders and wealthy Republican donors. Representatives from the Arab countries of Bahrain, Oman and the United Arab Emirates were present, but there were no Palestinian representatives.

“President Abbas, I want you to know, that if you chose the path to peace, America and many other countries ... we will be there to help you in so many different ways,” he said. “And we will be there every step of the way.”

The 50-page plan builds on a 30-page economic plan for the West Bank and Gaza that was unveiled last June and which the Palestinians have also rejected.

It envisions a future Palestinian state consisting of the West Bank and Gaza, connected by a combination of roads and tunnels. It also would give small areas of southern Israel to the Palestinians as compensation for lost West Bank land.

But the many caveats, and ultimate overall Israeli control, made the deal a nonstarter for the Palestinians.

Netanyahu and his main political challenger in March elections, Benny Gantz, had signed off on the plan.

“Mr. President, because of this historic recognition and because I believe your peace plan strikes the right balance where other plans have failed,” Netanyahu said. “I’ve agreed to negotiate peace with the Palestinians on the basis of your peace plan.

The Jordan Valley annexation is a big part of Netanyahu’s strategy and a key promise meant to appeal to his hard-line nationalist base, which mostly applauded the Trump plan.

U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity ahead of the plan’s release, said they expected negative responses from the Palestinians, but were hopeful that Jordan and Egypt, the only two Arab nations to have peace treaties with Israel, would not reject it outright.

Jordan gave the plan a cool reaction, saying it remained committed to a two-state solution based on Israel’s pre-1967 lines. It also said it rejected any unilateral move by Israel, referring to the annexation plan.

The reaction of Jordan, which would retain its responsibilities over Jerusalem’s al-Aqsa Mosque under the plan, is particularly significant. Located next to the West Bank, Jordan also is home to a large Palestinian population.

Egypt, the first Arab country to reach a peace deal with Israel, urged Israelis and Palestinians to carefully study the plan. The European Union also said it needed to study it more closely.

Saudi Arabia, another key Arab country, said it appreciated the Trump administration’s efforts and encouraged the resumption of direct talks between Israel and the Palestinians “under the auspices of the United States.”

U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said the United Nations supports two states living in peace and security within recognized borders, on the basis of the pre-1967 borders, according to his spokesman.

The Palestinians see the West Bank as the heartland of a future independent state and east Jerusalem as their capital. Most of the international community supports their position, but Trump has reversed decades of U.S. foreign policy by siding more blatantly with Israel. The centerpiece of his strategy was recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and moving the American Embassy there. He’s also closed Palestinian diplomatic offices in Washington and cut funding to Palestinian aid programs.

Those policies have proven popular among Trump’s evangelical and pro-Israel supporters.

But the Palestinians refuse to even speak to Trump and they called on support from Arab leaders.

https://apnews.com/f7d36b9023309ce4b1e423b02abf52c6
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01-30-2020, 03:22 AM
Post: #5
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
Not sure which thread is more racist, this one or Dick Taters???Dodgy

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.”
― Leonardo da Vinci
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01-30-2020, 03:28 AM
Post: #6
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 03:22 AM)jho Wrote:  Not sure which thread is more racist, this one or Dick Taters???Dodgy

Dick Taters. You're welcome. Wink
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01-30-2020, 03:46 AM
Post: #7
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
where is the palestinian representative?

how comes it's always USA and Israel talking about the plan
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01-30-2020, 04:10 AM
Post: #8
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 03:46 AM)pug-thug Wrote:  where is the palestinian representative?

how comes it's always USA and Israel talking about the plan

My impression was that they had already rejected it and didn't want to participate. The first I learned about the plan was yesterday and today.

I doubt the Pals will ever be happy with anything. They've pretty much rejected everything ever offered. The ME nations plain old don't want the state of Israel to exist in the ME.

Every time the Pals reject a plan they end up with less than previous plans.
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01-30-2020, 04:51 AM
Post: #9
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 04:10 AM)pilgrim Wrote:  I doubt the Pals will ever be happy with anything. They've pretty much rejected everything ever offered. The ME nations plain old don't want the state of Israel to exist in the ME.

Anything? I think they would be pretty stoked at pre-1947 borders? And OK with pre-1967 borders.

Israel's history the last 60+ years has been one of bullying, imperialism, and expansion. It seems to me that it is the Israelis that will never be happy with anything, no matter how much their borders expand.

Probably because.... Their stated goal is to have the Nile and Euphrates as Israel's borders! Why should their neighbors be OK with that?
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01-30-2020, 05:09 AM
Post: #10
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
Jared Kushner wrote the plan.

Netanyahu is old friends with the Kushners, and even slept in Jared's childhood bed as guest.

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.”
― Leonardo da Vinci
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01-30-2020, 05:15 AM
Post: #11
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 04:51 AM)Chaos Reigns Wrote:  
(01-30-2020 04:10 AM)pilgrim Wrote:  I doubt the Pals will ever be happy with anything. They've pretty much rejected everything ever offered. The ME nations plain old don't want the state of Israel to exist in the ME.

Anything? I think they would be pretty stoked at pre-1947 borders? And OK with pre-1967 borders.

Israel's history the last 60+ years has been one of bullying, imperialism, and expansion. It seems to me that it is the Israelis that will never be happy with anything, no matter how much their borders expand.

Probably because.... Their stated goal is to have the Nile and Euphrates as Israel's borders! Why should their neighbors be OK with that?

The Pals have had many good offers in the past but turned them down. Now they would probably like to go back to some of those offers. I agree with you. But it's too late now. They are defeated and have to accept what they get. Israel won.

God defined the boundaries of Israel in the Word. I don't know if they will ever fulfill his original plan but any argument is with God. Israel belongs to him.
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01-30-2020, 06:20 AM
Post: #12
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 05:15 AM)pilgrim Wrote:  The Pals have had many good offers in the past but turned them down. Now they would probably like to go back to some of those offers. I agree with you. But it's too late now. They are defeated and have to accept what they get. Israel won.

God defined the boundaries of Israel in the Word. I don't know if they will ever fulfill his original plan but any argument is with God. Israel belongs to him.

I don't understand how you think a group that follows an oral religious tradition should be granted land based on a separate scriptural tradition.
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01-30-2020, 06:44 AM
Post: #13
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 06:20 AM)Chaos Reigns Wrote:  
(01-30-2020 05:15 AM)pilgrim Wrote:  The Pals have had many good offers in the past but turned them down. Now they would probably like to go back to some of those offers. I agree with you. But it's too late now. They are defeated and have to accept what they get. Israel won.

God defined the boundaries of Israel in the Word. I don't know if they will ever fulfill his original plan but any argument is with God. Israel belongs to him.

I don't understand how you think a group that follows an oral religious tradition should be granted land based on a separate scriptural tradition.

God gave it to the Jews. He even defined the boundaries. Who am I to deny what God wants to do.
They follow an oral tradition since they lost their temple. The Torah still applies to the Jewish people.
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01-30-2020, 08:02 AM
Post: #14
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
^ I don't think it's God's role to play real estate agent.

I think using God as a reason to annex land thousands of years later is unreasonable.
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01-30-2020, 08:13 AM (This post was last modified: 01-30-2020 08:18 AM by pilgrim.)
Post: #15
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 08:02 AM)pug-thug Wrote:  ^ I don't think it's God's role to play real estate agent.
I think using God as a reason to annex land thousands of years later is unreasonable.

Quote:^ I don't think it's God's role to play real estate agent.

Feel free to lay out your defined role for God. Smile


Here's what he said in his word;

The Promised Land: Israel’s Biblical Title Deeds

God promised that He would give all the land of Canaan to Abraham and his descendants. He made a covenant with Abraham:

To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt (traditionally taken as the Nile) as far as the great river, the River Euphrates (Gen 15.18)
I will fix your boundary from the Red Sea to the sea of the Philistines (Gaza coast), and from the wilderness to the River Euphrates (Exod 23.31)

Despite Israel’s future disobedience, this promise was unconditional in that the land was to be theirs forever; no strings attached:

I will give to you and to your descendants … all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession (Gen 17.8)



Where was Canaan, this “Promised Land”? Where did the twelve tribes of Israel settle? They settled mainly in the area currently referred to as Israel, including the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights, although the tribes of Benjamin, Gad, Reuben and part of Manasseh settled east of the Jordan (Fig.1). So there we have it: Abraham’s descendants, Isaac, Jacob and the twelve tribes of Israel are promised their own land, their own piece of real estate in the region we now call Israel.

Location of Israel’s Future Borders

Let’s try and identify the biblical geographic boundaries. As the Israelites conquered more territory the term ‘Canaan’ was gradually applied to all the lands west of the Jordan valley, and there are references to Canaanites living in the valleys and plains of this region (Num 13.29)(Josh 11.3)(Judg 1.27). In time the LORD gave more detail of the geographical boundaries. For example, in Num 34.1-12 we find the boundaries given to Moses as he was about to divide up Canaan for the twelve tribes. These are:

Western: the Mediterranean Sea
Eastern: from Kadesh-barnea, via Zin and the salt sea to Zedad and Hamath in the north
Southern: from Kadesh Barnea to the Brook of Egypt (probably not the Nile)
Northern: from the Mediterranean Sea (Mount Hor) to Hamath to Zedad

The boundaries defined in Numbers 34 are shown in Fig.2 and in Ezek 47.13-20 we find more boundary detail which confirm these boundaries. It is clearly stated that the Jordan is the eastern boundary (v18) and the western boundary (the Mediterranean Sea) goes north as far as ‘opposite Hamath’ (v20). The southern boundary is defined by a ‘brook’ in Num 34.5 and Ezek 47.19 and by a ‘river’ in Gen 15.18. Note that this is most likely not the Nile

[Image: Land_of_Israel_wiki.gif]

https://www.factsaboutisrael.uk/future-b...-prophecy/
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