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LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
01-30-2020, 08:29 AM
Post: #16
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
that's based on a book that talks about some dude splitting the sea in half with a magic stick.

Are we really going to use that as a basis for appropriating land for people?

I do agree that Jewish people need a homeland, but it should be done in a way that all sides can agree on!
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01-30-2020, 08:40 AM
Post: #17
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 08:29 AM)pug-thug Wrote:  that's based on a book that talks about some dude splitting the sea in half with a magic stick.

Are we really going to use that as a basis for appropriating land for people?

I do agree that Jewish people need a homeland, but it should be done in a way that all sides can agree on!

Quote:...but it should be done in a way that all sides can agree on!

That won't happen. We know that much by now.

I agree with the bible and believe God's miracles happened. Apparently you don't so your approach will differ from mine.

"Magic stick", indeed.
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01-30-2020, 09:02 AM
Post: #18
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
I like Christianity, but I don't think everything is meant to be taken literally.

they are origin myths.. and have great value. but when you start really believing that men walked with dinosaurs or burning bushes being able to talk.. then I think that is misguided.

I have great respect for Christianity and the good works it engages in all over the world.
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01-30-2020, 09:12 AM
Post: #19
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 09:02 AM)pug-thug Wrote:  I like Christianity, but I don't think everything is meant to be taken literally.

they are origin myths.. and have great value. but when you start really believing that men walked with dinosaurs or burning bushes being able to talk.. then I think that is misguided.

I have great respect for Christianity and the good works it engages in all over the world.

I know you respect Christianity. You always seem to have.

I just found that God becomes more real to me when I take his word seriously. I've had to many instances of him speaking directly to me not to believe he didn't perform the miracles or speak through burning bushes previously. He doesn't reside in bushes any more, we have this glory inside of us.

Anyway, how would you carve up Palestine? What should have been done differently in your opinion? I feel like they have tried everything already. The two sides won't agree on a plan.

Should Israel just conquer and take over like Russia did in Crimea and the USA did on the American frontier?
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01-30-2020, 09:48 AM
Post: #20
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 06:44 AM)pilgrim Wrote:  God gave it to the Jews. He even defined the boundaries. Who am I to deny what God wants to do.
They follow an oral tradition since they lost their temple. The Torah still applies to the Jewish people.

There is a famous saying, "What the Torah forbids, the Talmud allows"

I just read this, so take it for what it is worth, from a seemingly authoritative Jewish site, Aish.com:
"The first thing to know is that the Torah consists of two parts: The Written Torah, and the Oral Torah."

How many Christians would agree with that statement, or have been able to tell you that? Zero. Because we have always been told that the Torah simply = the Old Testament.

From that same site: "Jews consider it insulting to call it the Old Testament, as this implies a New Testament, which Jews reject."

Someone who rejects MY religious tradition expicitly is not someone I consider to share a religious tradition with.

Someone who supplements my religious tradition with oral teachings, that SUPERCEDE my written religious tradition, I do not consider to share a religious tradition with.

Pretty soon you start wondering if in fact the religious (nevermind cultural, social or political) traditions are actually OPPOSED to each other!
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01-30-2020, 10:57 AM
Post: #21
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 09:48 AM)Chaos Reigns Wrote:  
(01-30-2020 06:44 AM)pilgrim Wrote:  God gave it to the Jews. He even defined the boundaries. Who am I to deny what God wants to do.
They follow an oral tradition since they lost their temple. The Torah still applies to the Jewish people.

There is a famous saying, "What the Torah forbids, the Talmud allows"

I just read this, so take it for what it is worth, from a seemingly authoritative Jewish site, Aish.com:
"The first thing to know is that the Torah consists of two parts: The Written Torah, and the Oral Torah."

How many Christians would agree with that statement, or have been able to tell you that? Zero. Because we have always been told that the Torah simply = the Old Testament.

From that same site: "Jews consider it insulting to call it the Old Testament, as this implies a New Testament, which Jews reject."

Someone who rejects MY religious tradition expicitly is not someone I consider to share a religious tradition with.

Someone who supplements my religious tradition with oral teachings, that SUPERCEDE my written religious tradition, I do not consider to share a religious tradition with.

Pretty soon you start wondering if in fact the religious (nevermind cultural, social or political) traditions are actually OPPOSED to each other!

The Jewish people right now isn't right with God in terms of their faith. But he still has a plan for them. It's important to keep that in mind. There will come a time where they turn back and find that Messiah has already come and they will embrace him. For now they were blinded so that us, the Gentiles could come into the kingdom. Check out all of Romans chapter 11 for a good narrative of this. So while their religion may not be what it needs to be, God hasn't fogotten them and is still working with them. Just the miracle that they are back in the land of Israel again speaks volumes.

Romans 11:

(Rom 11:11 [WEB])
I ask then, did they stumble that they might fall? May it never be! But by their fall salvation has come to the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy.

(Rom 11:12 [WEB])
Now if their fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?

(Rom 11:13 [WEB])
For I speak to you who are Gentiles. Since then as I am an apostle to Gentiles, I glorify my ministry;

(Rom 11:14 [WEB])
if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh, and may save some of them.

(Rom 11:15 [WEB])
For if the rejection of them is the reconciling of the world, what would their acceptance be, but life from the dead?

(Rom 11:16 [WEB])
If the first fruit is holy, so is the lump. If the root is holy, so are the branches.

(Rom 11:17 [WEB])
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them, and became partaker with them of the root and of the richness of the olive tree;

(Rom 11:18 [WEB])
don’t boast over the branches. But if you boast, it is not you who support the root, but the root supports you.

(Rom 11:19 [WEB])
You will say then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.”

(Rom 11:20 [WEB])
True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Don’t be conceited, but fear;

(Rom 11:21 [WEB])
for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

(Rom 11:22 [WEB])
See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

(Rom 11:23 [WEB])
They also, if they don’t continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

(Rom 11:24 [WEB])
For if you were cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more will these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

(Rom 11:25 [WEB])
For I don’t desire you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you won’t be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,

(Rom 11:26 [WEB])
and so all Israel will be saved. Even as it is written, “There will come out of Zion the Deliverer, and he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.

(Rom 11:27 [WEB])
This is my covenant to them, when I will take away their sins.”


(Rom 11:28 [WEB])
Concerning the Good News, they are enemies for your sake. But concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake.

(Rom 11:29 [WEB])
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


(Rom 11:30 [WEB])
For as you in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience,

(Rom 11:31 [WEB])
even so these also have now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they may also obtain mercy.

(Rom 11:32 [WEB])
For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.

(Rom 11:33 [WEB])
Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out!

(Rom 11:34 [WEB])
“For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?”

(Rom 11:35 [WEB])
“Or who has first given to him, and it will be repaid to him again?”

(Rom 11:36 [WEB])
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things. To him be the glory for ever! Amen.
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01-30-2020, 02:44 PM
Post: #22
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 10:57 AM)pilgrim Wrote:  
(01-30-2020 09:48 AM)Chaos Reigns Wrote:  
(01-30-2020 06:44 AM)pilgrim Wrote:  God gave it to the Jews. He even defined the boundaries. Who am I to deny what God wants to do.
They follow an oral tradition since they lost their temple. The Torah still applies to the Jewish people.

There is a famous saying, "What the Torah forbids, the Talmud allows"

I just read this, so take it for what it is worth, from a seemingly authoritative Jewish site, Aish.com:
"The first thing to know is that the Torah consists of two parts: The Written Torah, and the Oral Torah."

How many Christians would agree with that statement, or have been able to tell you that? Zero. Because we have always been told that the Torah simply = the Old Testament.

From that same site: "Jews consider it insulting to call it the Old Testament, as this implies a New Testament, which Jews reject."

Someone who rejects MY religious tradition expicitly is not someone I consider to share a religious tradition with.

Someone who supplements my religious tradition with oral teachings, that SUPERCEDE my written religious tradition, I do not consider to share a religious tradition with.

Pretty soon you start wondering if in fact the religious (nevermind cultural, social or political) traditions are actually OPPOSED to each other!

The Jewish people right now isn't right with God in terms of their faith. But he still has a plan for them. It's important to keep that in mind. There will come a time where they turn back and find that Messiah has already come and they will embrace him. For now they were blinded so that us, the Gentiles could come into the kingdom. Check out all of Romans chapter 11 for a good narrative of this. So while their religion may not be what it needs to be, God hasn't fogotten them and is still working with them. Just the miracle that they are back in the land of Israel again speaks volumes.

Romans 11:

(Rom 11:11 [WEB])
I ask then, did they stumble that they might fall? May it never be! But by their fall salvation has come to the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy.

(Rom 11:12 [WEB])
Now if their fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?

(Rom 11:13 [WEB])
For I speak to you who are Gentiles. Since then as I am an apostle to Gentiles, I glorify my ministry;

(Rom 11:14 [WEB])
if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh, and may save some of them.

(Rom 11:15 [WEB])
For if the rejection of them is the reconciling of the world, what would their acceptance be, but life from the dead?

(Rom 11:16 [WEB])
If the first fruit is holy, so is the lump. If the root is holy, so are the branches.

(Rom 11:17 [WEB])
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them, and became partaker with them of the root and of the richness of the olive tree;

(Rom 11:18 [WEB])
don’t boast over the branches. But if you boast, it is not you who support the root, but the root supports you.

(Rom 11:19 [WEB])
You will say then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.”

(Rom 11:20 [WEB])
True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Don’t be conceited, but fear;

(Rom 11:21 [WEB])
for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

(Rom 11:22 [WEB])
See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

(Rom 11:23 [WEB])
They also, if they don’t continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

(Rom 11:24 [WEB])
For if you were cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more will these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

(Rom 11:25 [WEB])
For I don’t desire you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you won’t be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,

(Rom 11:26 [WEB])
and so all Israel will be saved. Even as it is written, “There will come out of Zion the Deliverer, and he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.

(Rom 11:27 [WEB])
This is my covenant to them, when I will take away their sins.”


(Rom 11:28 [WEB])
Concerning the Good News, they are enemies for your sake. But concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake.

(Rom 11:29 [WEB])
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


(Rom 11:30 [WEB])
For as you in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience,

(Rom 11:31 [WEB])
even so these also have now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they may also obtain mercy.

(Rom 11:32 [WEB])
For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.

(Rom 11:33 [WEB])
Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out!

(Rom 11:34 [WEB])
“For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?”

(Rom 11:35 [WEB])
“Or who has first given to him, and it will be repaid to him again?”

(Rom 11:36 [WEB])
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things. To him be the glory for ever! Amen.




“Signs and symbols rule the world, not words nor laws.”
― Confucius
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01-30-2020, 06:25 PM
Post: #23
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 03:46 AM)pug-thug Wrote:  where is the palestinian representative?

how comes it's always USA and Israel talking about the plan

I didn't see a Palestinain representative either.

You'd think a "Peace Plan" would involve members of each side.

But not the case here.

Doesn't seem right. This is Trump and Israel doing what they want whether Palestine likes it or not.

"If you don't love all, you love no one" - Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson
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01-30-2020, 09:53 PM (This post was last modified: 01-30-2020 09:54 PM by pilgrim.)
Post: #24
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
(01-30-2020 09:12 AM)pilgrim Wrote:  
(01-30-2020 09:02 AM)pug-thug Wrote:  I like Christianity, but I don't think everything is meant to be taken literally.

they are origin myths.. and have great value. but when you start really believing that men walked with dinosaurs or burning bushes being able to talk.. then I think that is misguided.

I have great respect for Christianity and the good works it engages in all over the world.

I know you respect Christianity. You always seem to have.

I just found that God becomes more real to me when I take his word seriously. I've had to many instances of him speaking directly to me not to believe he didn't perform the miracles or speak through burning bushes previously. He doesn't reside in bushes any more, we have this glory inside of us.

Anyway, how would you carve up Palestine? What should have been done differently in your opinion? I feel like they have tried everything already. The two sides won't agree on a plan.

Should Israel just conquer and take over like Russia did in Crimea and the USA did on the American frontier?

Quote:Anyway, how would you carve up Palestine? What should have been done differently in your opinion? I feel like they have tried everything already. The two sides won't agree on a plan.

Should Israel just conquer and take over like Russia did in Crimea and the USA did on the American frontier?


EY, what would you suggest? What would be the right approach to this?
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01-31-2020, 04:45 AM
Post: #25
RE: LIVE: President Trump News Conference with Netanyahu
TTT 4 Pug Life
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