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Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
12-01-2018, 10:32 AM
Post: #31
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
(12-01-2018 06:13 AM)CTsar Wrote:  Bisping winning the MW belt? Robbie Lawler winning the WW Belt? Shogun ranked top 5 as late as this year wtf. he's almost a decade past his prime.

"He was doing mma much longer at 29"

not even true, they had same number of bouts / years in the sport at that age.

Fair enough around six or seven years they had same amount of bouts. I'll retract that one. Silva certainly had a more rounded game at that point. Israel has a very high potential ceiling though not even being 30 yet. The way his striking had transferred to mma is very impressive and he has koed almost all opponents. impressive take down defense for someone with zero grappling background as well.

Bisping became champ beating someone who is actually way better than him. It's a great story he came out with confidence despite already losing to Rockhold caught him early because Rockhold was incredibly over confident. Bisping made the absolute most of his potential. He was not terrible either by the way. He would have looked even better 15 years ago.

Shogun being ranked top 5 is an example of the corruption and what's wrong with mma. Again not saying the sport has gotten better...its more sterile, even more corrupt, and guys get chances they don't deserve based off how much they move the needle with the casual crowd over their actual in ring performance. Still with all that said the best of today would destroy the best of 20 years ago. Only someone not actively around the sport anymore would argue otherwise.
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12-01-2018, 10:41 AM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2018 11:37 AM by Veritatem Quaerens.)
Post: #32
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
(12-01-2018 10:12 AM)Skookum Charlie Wrote:  
(11-30-2018 10:07 PM)Veritatem Quaerens Wrote:  
(11-30-2018 05:38 AM)Skookum Charlie Wrote:  
(11-29-2018 11:09 PM)Veritatem Quaerens Wrote:  
(11-29-2018 03:20 PM)Skookum Charlie Wrote:  Was just looking at the UFC 170 rankings. Pele, Anderson, Sakarai and Newton from 2001 would destroy that top 4. Of course they were better than UFC's top 170s back then as well but at least guiys like Menne and Miletich could hang...

I was as much an fan of the legendary Pele as anyone. That is a laughable statement however. They all would have been taking down at will by Woodley. I get that they fought with a more exciting budo-esque style. He would be dominated in the modern era however. Complete lol that you used Menne as an example at all! The fact that you didnt know Israel shows you are not watching and analyzing fights on the regular anymore and prefer to reminisce about the good old days. Take hints from EY he can effectively argue how MMA used to be better without making ludicrous claims. You were way off with the ages and the influx of elite athletes as well.

What is so funny about Menne, he did beat Pele you know. And what ages are you talking about that I got wrong? You don't seem to know what you're talking about at all.

Bit congrats on still following the cage fighting. Are you from Sherdog?

Anyone arguably elite on Mennes record he lost to minus Pele and Newton who were only top tier of their time not all time. He deserves respect as a pioneer but not in a discussion of why mma talent was greater two decades ago. You really are stuck in that era asking if I'm from sherdog likes its 2001 and your on the UG lol

I argued no such thing re Menne. Honestly, at this point I have no idea what you're even on about. Look, if you're still a keen mma follower at this stage, good for you. I can't say you're wasting your time because I was there once not too long ago myself. It's just strange coming across this point of view here on this website I guess. Seems more in step with what's going on at, say, Sherdog or the UG....

I didnt say that you argued Menne was elite. I was saying anyone that you could arguably call elite that Menne faced he lost to minus Pele and Newton who are not all time greats. What I'm on about is simple... the fighters of today are better than the fighters of the era that you actually payed attention to. Even though I would probably agree with you on many of the other faults with the current state of mma as a whole. Frankly this view is needed on this forum otherwise it's an mma forum consisting of five guys who barely watch the sport talking about the good old days. At least EY is up to date on MMA in the eastern hemisphere. There are plenty of guys in Rizen and OneFc who would beat your heroes too by the way.
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12-01-2018, 10:48 AM
Post: #33
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
(12-01-2018 06:50 AM)pug-thug Wrote:  
(11-26-2018 08:39 AM)CTsar Wrote:  and getting a break from USADA.

Silva, 43, hasn't fought since a decision win against Derek Brunson in February 2017. He failed a random drug test in October 2017. However, the United States Anti-Doping Agency ultimately ruled the positive test was caused by a contaminated dietary supplement, and Silva agreed to a one-year suspension.

Long considered the greatest fighter of all time, Silva (34-8) has just one win in the past five years. The Brazilian held the record for most consecutive UFC title defenses for years, until flyweight Demetrious Johnson broke the mark in October 2017.

Adesanya, 29, will be coming off a breakout 2018.

Fighting out of New Zealand, Adesanya (15-0) made his UFC debut in February and has rattled off four wins, including a sensational first-round knockout over Brunson at UFC 230 in November.





just watched this HL

he looks much better in MMA than pure kickboxing

he should beat Anderson Silva quite easily. pretty fierce and with good ring instincts

Yes this is a passing of the torch thing. Should look spectacular doing it. Two dynamic strikers make it intriguing even if one is well past his prime. There are still some tests Israel hasnt passed but the future looks promising at this point. Entertaining personality as well so he will draw.
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12-01-2018, 10:50 AM
Post: #34
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
(12-01-2018 10:41 AM)Veritatem Quaerens Wrote:  
(12-01-2018 10:12 AM)Skookum Charlie Wrote:  
(11-30-2018 10:07 PM)Veritatem Quaerens Wrote:  
(11-30-2018 05:38 AM)Skookum Charlie Wrote:  
(11-29-2018 11:09 PM)Veritatem Quaerens Wrote:  I was as much an fan of the legendary Pele as anyone. That is a laughable statement however. They all would have been taking down at will by Woodley. I get that they fought with a more exciting budo-esque style. He would be dominated in the modern era however. Complete lol that you used Menne as an example at all! The fact that you didnt know Israel shows you are not watching and analyzing fights on the regular anymore and prefer to reminisce about the good old days. Take hints from EY he can effectively argue how MMA used to be better without making ludicrous claims. You were way off with the ages and the influx of elite athletes as well.

What is so funny about Menne, he did beat Pele you know. And what ages are you talking about that I got wrong? You don't seem to know what you're talking about at all.

Bit congrats on still following the cage fighting. Are you from Sherdog?

Anyone arguably elite on Mennes record he lost to minus Pele and Newton who were only top tier of their time not all time. He deserves respect as a pioneer but not in a discussion of why mma talent was greater two decades ago. You really are stuck in that era asking if I'm from sherdog likes its 2001 and your on the UG lol

I argued no such thing re Menne. Honestly, at this point I have no idea what you're even on about. Look, if you're still a keen mma follower at this stage, good for you. I can't say you're wasting your time because I was there once not too long ago myself. It's just strange coming across this point of view here on this website I guess. Seems more in step with what's going on at, say, Sherdog or the UG....

I didnt say that you argued Menne was elite. I was saying anyone that you could arguably call elite that Menne faced he lost to minus Pele and Newton who are not all time greats. What I'm on about is simple... the fighters of today are better than the fighters of the era that you actually payed attention to. Even though I would probably agree with you on many of the other faults with the current state of mma as a whole. Frankly this view is needed on this forum otherwise it's an mma forum consisting of five guys who barely watch the sport talking about the good old days. At least EY is up to date on MMA in the eastern hemisphere. There are plenty of guys in Rizen and Dream who would beat your heroes too by the way.

Did you even watch the video of Shidokan Warriors War that I posted? Menne won that tournament, and it was a classic featuring Newton, Pele and Matt Hughes, pretty impressive stuff at the time, certainly was the high water mark career wise for Menne. But you're right about the forum, not even the pro fighters that post here like Penxv think mma today is worth paying attention to,

And Pele and Newton are not greats is just ludicrous. Of course they are.

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12-01-2018, 11:19 AM
Post: #35
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
Yeah great classic vid that only strengthens my point imo. Its unbelievably apparent watching those fights the sport was only around 8 years at that point. I'm not trying to shit on Menne completely, he certainly has a place in the annals of mma history. At that point in time he was one of the more well rounded actual "MMA" guys. Hughes was still basically a wrestler at that point but evolved well past Menne and Highes is on the all time great list when the dust settles with his historic title run. Pele and Newton are great and both were on my favs list at the time. I'm saying they aren't in talks of best ever. Pele could have maybe been regarded as highly as Silva but seemed to unravel mentally at some point.Newton ultimately prioritized med school over his fighting career and we probably didnt see his absolute peak.( not saying that's a bad thing) Also name dropping another forum member because hes a fighter doesnt somehow add cred to your argument. I'm around the sport all the time. I know plenty of pros that don't watch the sport. They do it because they love competing, and needed an outlet after high school or college for their talents. That doesnt make them an expert on the best era in mma if they dont follow the sport just because they fight. I also know pros that are adamant fans of the modern product and have watched since 93 like myself that would not argue Dave Menne would beat Stephen Thompson.
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12-01-2018, 11:42 AM
Post: #36
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
(12-01-2018 10:48 AM)Veritatem Quaerens Wrote:  
(12-01-2018 06:50 AM)pug-thug Wrote:  
(11-26-2018 08:39 AM)CTsar Wrote:  and getting a break from USADA.

Silva, 43, hasn't fought since a decision win against Derek Brunson in February 2017. He failed a random drug test in October 2017. However, the United States Anti-Doping Agency ultimately ruled the positive test was caused by a contaminated dietary supplement, and Silva agreed to a one-year suspension.

Long considered the greatest fighter of all time, Silva (34-8) has just one win in the past five years. The Brazilian held the record for most consecutive UFC title defenses for years, until flyweight Demetrious Johnson broke the mark in October 2017.

Adesanya, 29, will be coming off a breakout 2018.

Fighting out of New Zealand, Adesanya (15-0) made his UFC debut in February and has rattled off four wins, including a sensational first-round knockout over Brunson at UFC 230 in November.





just watched this HL

he looks much better in MMA than pure kickboxing

he should beat Anderson Silva quite easily. pretty fierce and with good ring instincts

Yes this is a passing of the torch thing. Should look spectacular doing it. Two dynamic strikers make it intriguing even if one is well past his prime. There are still some tests Israel hasnt passed but the future looks promising at this point. Entertaining personality as well so he will draw.

Anderson could still be a top fighter today, but I think he became very tentative after that nasty shin break. psychologically that must be scarring as hell

he was just never the same after that. knowing your leg could break from checking kicks or going shin to shin must not inspire confidence

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12-01-2018, 12:36 PM
Post: #37
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
(12-01-2018 10:32 AM)Veritatem Quaerens Wrote:  Shogun being ranked top 5 is an example of the corruption and what's wrong with mma. Again not saying the sport has gotten better...its more sterile, even more corrupt, and guys get chances they don't deserve based off how much they move the needle with the casual crowd over their actual in ring performance.

but you gotta ask why are they doing this in the first place. Like, 15 years ago nobody was trying to prop up Dan Severn or pretend Ruas was still a top 5 HW in the world. There was no need because there was better talent coming up. It's not the case now.
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12-01-2018, 01:59 PM
Post: #38
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
(12-01-2018 12:36 PM)CTsar Wrote:  
(12-01-2018 10:32 AM)Veritatem Quaerens Wrote:  Shogun being ranked top 5 is an example of the corruption and what's wrong with mma. Again not saying the sport has gotten better...its more sterile, even more corrupt, and guys get chances they don't deserve based off how much they move the needle with the casual crowd over their actual in ring performance.

but you gotta ask why are they doing this in the first place. Like, 15 years ago nobody was trying to prop up Dan Severn or pretend Ruas was still a top 5 HW in the world. There was no need because there was better talent coming up. It's not the case now.

There is tons of new talent coming up. Arguably oversaturated. Talent alone doesnt equal sucess anymore. They definitely are banking off their biggest stars during Mmas popularity peak. They just extended Bj Penns contract to 4 more fights lol. I'm hoping he at least a gets past Ryan Hall before ultimately being fed to the wolves like Rua was
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12-01-2018, 02:02 PM
Post: #39
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
(12-01-2018 11:42 AM)pug-thug Wrote:  
(12-01-2018 10:48 AM)Veritatem Quaerens Wrote:  
(12-01-2018 06:50 AM)pug-thug Wrote:  
(11-26-2018 08:39 AM)CTsar Wrote:  and getting a break from USADA.

Silva, 43, hasn't fought since a decision win against Derek Brunson in February 2017. He failed a random drug test in October 2017. However, the United States Anti-Doping Agency ultimately ruled the positive test was caused by a contaminated dietary supplement, and Silva agreed to a one-year suspension.

Long considered the greatest fighter of all time, Silva (34-8) has just one win in the past five years. The Brazilian held the record for most consecutive UFC title defenses for years, until flyweight Demetrious Johnson broke the mark in October 2017.

Adesanya, 29, will be coming off a breakout 2018.

Fighting out of New Zealand, Adesanya (15-0) made his UFC debut in February and has rattled off four wins, including a sensational first-round knockout over Brunson at UFC 230 in November.





just watched this HL

he looks much better in MMA than pure kickboxing

he should beat Anderson Silva quite easily. pretty fierce and with good ring instincts

Yes this is a passing of the torch thing. Should look spectacular doing it. Two dynamic strikers make it intriguing even if one is well past his prime. There are still some tests Israel hasnt passed but the future looks promising at this point. Entertaining personality as well so he will draw.

Anderson could still be a top fighter today, but I think he became very tentative after that nasty shin break. psychologically that must be scarring as hell

he was just never the same after that. knowing your leg could break from checking kicks or going shin to shin must not inspire confidence
That was definitely a game changer. He didn't look terrible in fights after that with Bispung and Brunson just very human in comparison to before the break.
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12-01-2018, 02:37 PM
Post: #40
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
(12-01-2018 01:59 PM)Veritatem Quaerens Wrote:  There is tons of new talent coming up. Arguably oversaturated. Talent alone doesnt equal sucess anymore. They definitely are banking off their biggest stars during Mmas popularity peak. They just extended Bj Penns contract to 4 more fights lol. I'm hoping he at least a gets past Ryan Hall before ultimately being fed to the wolves like Rua was

I disagree, popularity is proportional to the level of talent in the sport. Even with MMA in it's worst years in a long time, Jones vs Cormier still sold like 900k PPV. Same with boxing. At it's lowest point in decades, yet Pacquiao Mayweather sold record numbers. People, even casual fans recognize when you got something special to sell.
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12-01-2018, 04:33 PM
Post: #41
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
It also seems like the Fertitta brothers in consolidating their global monopoly must have salted the once fertile ground of Brazil and Japan so that nothing can grow there anymore in the manner of the great Turco-Mongol conquerors and empire builders of Late Antiquity. Haven't really discussed mma at all in the past couple of years and decided to check out one of my old online haunts Portal do Vale Tudo last night and none of the old personalities seem to be there anymore. Just a bunch of young UFC fans that don't even seem to be aware that the sport comes from their country originally. All of the great gyms are gone and the great events have been replaced by unified rules feeder material. This is the saddest aspect of modern mma for me.
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12-01-2018, 04:45 PM
Post: #42
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
(12-01-2018 02:37 PM)CTsar Wrote:  
(12-01-2018 01:59 PM)Veritatem Quaerens Wrote:  There is tons of new talent coming up. Arguably oversaturated. Talent alone doesnt equal sucess anymore. They definitely are banking off their biggest stars during Mmas popularity peak. They just extended Bj Penns contract to 4 more fights lol. I'm hoping he at least a gets past Ryan Hall before ultimately being fed to the wolves like Rua was

I disagree, popularity is proportional to the level of talent in the sport. Even with MMA in it's worst years in a long time, Jones vs Cormier still sold like 900k PPV. Same with boxing. At it's lowest point in decades, yet Pacquiao Mayweather sold record numbers. People, even casual fans recognize when you got something special to sell.

I would come back and watch Jones whup Cormier again if/when it happens again. that's compelling stuff.

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12-01-2018, 05:13 PM
Post: #43
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
^I don't even bother streaming most shows these days and I still went out looking for bars to watch the Conor - Khabib PPV. I Couldn't get a seat anywhere btw so ended up watching at home.
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12-01-2018, 10:18 PM
Post: #44
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
(12-01-2018 02:37 PM)CTsar Wrote:  
(12-01-2018 01:59 PM)Veritatem Quaerens Wrote:  There is tons of new talent coming up. Arguably oversaturated. Talent alone doesnt equal sucess anymore. They definitely are banking off their biggest stars during Mmas popularity peak. They just extended Bj Penns contract to 4 more fights lol. I'm hoping he at least a gets past Ryan Hall before ultimately being fed to the wolves like Rua was

I disagree, popularity is proportional to the level of talent in the sport. Even with MMA in it's worst years in a long time, Jones vs Cormier still sold like 900k PPV. Same with boxing. At it's lowest point in decades, yet Pacquiao Mayweather sold record numbers. People, even casual fans recognize when you got something special to sell.

Tons of talent that casuals dont know or care about. An LFC card is filled with more talent than the UFC cards of 2001. Popukarity is not directly related to talent. Fans need talent and drama to buy in droves. They need an almost pro wrestling like back stody and promotion drama. That's why McG has all the ppv numbers.
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12-06-2018, 10:37 PM
Post: #45
RE: Anderson Silva to fight black guy named Israel
Shogun was amazing in his recent fight, beat the shit out of that young Samoan prospect. He is tough as nails.

I expect Israel to easily defeat the old man Silva, but I can't rule out an upset KO from Silva.
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