Tonon vs. Aoki grappling match

[EVILYOSHIDA]

Aoki dominated the whole fight but got caught in a HH

[kungfool]

I posted this over at MT Forum where there is more interest in BJJ.

Aoki had far better takedowns and was much stronger.
Compared to the average MMA fighter, Aoki is not very strong, and does not have very good takedowns.

This leads me to believe that Tonon will do poorly in MMA.

Tonon is one of my favorite grapplers BTW.

[EVILYOSHIDA]

Aoki seemed like the superior grappler overall, he just got caught

TONON will not do well in MMA I agree

Aoki's latest fight:

[kungfool]

Shinya was doing great, but made a series of mistakes towards the end.

[EVILYOSHIDA]

Shinya was in control, had better takedowns, great back control

he was dictating the pace and just got caught.

but the thing about heel hooks is that they can end the match quickly.

but fundamentally you can tell TONON is probably not on Aoki's level

not an AOKI fan btw

[kungfool]

I retract what I said about Shinya not being strong. He used to rely on flexibility and surprise when he was young, but as he aged, and after losing some fights, he came back with much more upper-body strength, takedowns, top domination, and a sadistic ground-and-pound (see the Sakuraba match).

This is inevitably the path that slick sport BJJ guys down.

[EVILYOSHIDA]

aoki's weakness is his chin and he folds under pressure easily

but when he can play the role of the bully he is pretty much unstoppable on the ground

[kungfool]

(05-15-2018 06:55 AM)EVILYOSHIDA Wrote:  Shinya was in control, had better takedowns, great back control

he was dictating the pace and just got caught.

but the thing about heel hooks is that they can end the match quickly.

I agree in essence, but the expression that he just 'got caught' isn't quite right. He took a mental break while Tonon was setting up his A-Game rolling-kneebar series.

When Tonon started to roll into turtle, Shinya should have / could have:

-- Put his knee on Tonons calf (like GSP does). This type of wrestling ride prevents the knee-bar and granby roll.
-- Turned the corner with his head. Keeping strong posture and his hips facing his opponent would have kept him from getting knocked off base.
-- Stayed on top. Shinya sittting to his butt gave Tonon all the time and control he needed to lock up the "saddle" / "inside-sankaku" position.
-- Turned belly down. Shinya just sort of left his legs unprotected and watched as Tonon finished him. Turning over would have at least made Tonon balance on his head to get the finish.

I'm certain that if they were to fight again, Tonon would submit him again.
Still, Aoki is far better suited to MMA, and there is no reason to think Tonon, as spectacular as he is, will be some sort of MMA superstar.

[kungfool]

(05-15-2018 06:56 AM)EVILYOSHIDA Wrote:  aoki's weakness is his chin and he folds under pressure easily

but when he can play the role of the bully he is pretty much unstoppable on the ground

That's so true. He rarely wins fights when they're not going his way.

[Veritatem Quaerens]

[EVILYOSHIDA]

welcome back Veritatem

[EVILYOSHIDA]

(05-15-2018 12:42 PM)Veritatem Quaerens Wrote:  

pretty impressive

the other guy was an atrocious striker

I would like to see him fight Aoki

imo AOKI wins easily

[Veritatem Quaerens]

I agree Aoki would win at this stage of their mma career being that his debut match is still very recent. I could see him making quick gains though. He has a great camp and seemingly a great mentality for combat sports. Pretty impressive debut IMO for a pure grappler who only recently began training in the striking arts. He is signed to One FC so a match with Aoki seems inevitable given their history. He needs a few more matches before stepping up to Aoki in the mma realm though of course.

[Veritatem Quaerens]

Out of curiosity, any ethnicity info on the name Tonon? Love the breakdowns on what ethnicity makes the best fighters. That's stuff you can't get on any other mma forum with the current PC culture.

[EVILYOSHIDA]

tonon seems like a french italian name