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Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
12-13-2017, 10:37 AM
Post: #1
Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
37:00

I always assumed that Frank had left the lion's den in the 90's due to Ken's ego as well as his departure to the WWF. But watching them confront each other face to face it looks it was all Frank's personal insecurities. They both had fucked up upbringings but Ken comes across as being emotionally stronger. The whole doc is worth watching.




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12-13-2017, 01:06 PM
Post: #2
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
ken seems more laid back.. Frank does seem more insecure and egotistical

KEN WAYNE SHAMROCK used to be a major celeb in Japan if you can believe that.
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12-13-2017, 01:34 PM
Post: #3
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
I liked Frank when I saw his first UFC fights, but realized he had some major personality issues. To me it seemed like narcissism.

I always rooted for Ken too, but he never really made anything of himself outside of Pancrase. Did poorly in UFC by UFC 5, and sucked balls in Pride. Part of me still thinks he gave Royce that choke.
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12-14-2017, 04:10 AM
Post: #4
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
Frank crying at 38:00

seems partially scripted though
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12-15-2017, 06:27 PM
Post: #5
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
Frank, is one of the most misunderstood guys ever.
He's actually a great guy, very nice, very smart.
He coordinated this whole effort.
Ken comes off stronger because he was big brother and favored by Bob as the leader.
Frank will always be the better fighter though.
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12-16-2017, 05:30 AM
Post: #6
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
(12-15-2017 06:27 PM)sparkuri Wrote:  Frank will always be the better fighter though.

That's true. Frank was far more talented.

Ken relied on his opponents not having knowledge of his grappling techniques. Once that advantage was quelled, he really had nothing to offer.

(12-15-2017 06:27 PM)sparkuri Wrote:  Frank, is one of the most misunderstood guys ever.

Frank rubs me as having a narcissistic personality and a little unstable. That's not a moral judgment; its just that orphans almost always carry childhood damage into adulthood. I watched his DVD's ages ago and do see that believes in Bruce Lee philosophy as well as a Budo-esque code of conduct. How do you see it differently?
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12-17-2017, 06:10 PM
Post: #7
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
(12-15-2017 06:27 PM)sparkuri Wrote:  Frank, is one of the most misunderstood guys ever.
He's actually a great guy, very nice, very smart.
He coordinated this whole effort.
Ken comes off stronger because he was big brother and favored by Bob as the leader.
Frank will always be the better fighter though.

Far better.

Ken bluffed his way through the sport once he left Pancrase.

I'm just trying to figure this shit out like you are.
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12-18-2017, 11:21 AM
Post: #8
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
Frank was one of the first complete fighters in MMA

he was physically super fit, he could strike and grapple

Renzo was also one of those guys that had good striking and grappling at the time.

they were part of the pioneering generation
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12-18-2017, 11:21 AM
Post: #9
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
(12-17-2017 06:10 PM)Redneck Wrote:  
(12-15-2017 06:27 PM)sparkuri Wrote:  Frank, is one of the most misunderstood guys ever.
He's actually a great guy, very nice, very smart.
He coordinated this whole effort.
Ken comes off stronger because he was big brother and favored by Bob as the leader.
Frank will always be the better fighter though.

Far better.

Ken bluffed his way through the sport once he left Pancrase.

PETEY MY HEART!

Those who know, know! Big Grin
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12-18-2017, 11:01 PM
Post: #10
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
(12-18-2017 11:21 AM)EVILYOSHIDA Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 06:10 PM)Redneck Wrote:  
(12-15-2017 06:27 PM)sparkuri Wrote:  Frank, is one of the most misunderstood guys ever.
He's actually a great guy, very nice, very smart.
He coordinated this whole effort.
Ken comes off stronger because he was big brother and favored by Bob as the leader.
Frank will always be the better fighter though.

Far better.

Ken bluffed his way through the sport once he left Pancrase.

PETEY MY HEART!


Every fight wasn't BS but he never showed the heart of a true Champion.


Vs Pat Smith - real leglock on an inexperienced opponent

Vs Royce Gracie - loss. he tried to keep fighting after tapping

Vs Leninger, a win. Big deal.

Vs Felix Mitchell, a win. Big deal

Vs Dan Severn - a win. Studied Severn's style and executed his one strategy, a Guillotine, and it worked.

Vs Oleg - A draw, but Oleg was another phony.

Vs Kimo 1 - a win. Probably a work.

Vs Severn 2 - Loss

Vs Brian Johnstone - a win but then pulled out of the tournament due to a broken hand.

Vs Don Frye - Loss in what appeared to be a stiff work.

vs Fujita - Loss

Vs Otsuka - Win by punches, but were the Japanese padding his record?

Vs Kimo 2 - Win by knee KO, in an obvious work.

Vs Franklin - Loss, but in an obviously worked fight.

Vs Saku - loss. he took a dive without Saku's knowledge. Give me the money.


Vs Ortiz - Loss. Every fight was as good as fake. Ken never turned up to win.


Vs Robert Berry - Loss by KO. This is what happens when you fight serious opponents.

Vs Ross Clifton - Win by submission in an obvious worked fight in the Ken Shamrock Productions Promotion.

Vs Pedro Rizzo - loss by humiliating TKO


Vs Johathon Ivey - Win in some country bumpkin show.

Vs Mike Bourke - Loss by TKO

Vs Kimbo Slice - Loss by TKO

Vs Royce Gracie 3 - Loss by TKO

I'm just trying to figure this shit out like you are.
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12-19-2017, 04:17 AM
Post: #11
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
re the saku fight.. the shot did land pretty hard though and Ken was already over the hill by then. still 50/50 for me. the j-orgs usually don't work it for the japanese fighter as they are masochist and don't mind seeing their own get beat down.



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12-19-2017, 09:56 AM
Post: #12
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
(12-18-2017 11:01 PM)Redneck Wrote:  
(12-18-2017 11:21 AM)EVILYOSHIDA Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 06:10 PM)Redneck Wrote:  
(12-15-2017 06:27 PM)sparkuri Wrote:  Frank, is one of the most misunderstood guys ever.
He's actually a great guy, very nice, very smart.
He coordinated this whole effort.
Ken comes off stronger because he was big brother and favored by Bob as the leader.
Frank will always be the better fighter though.

Far better.

Ken bluffed his way through the sport once he left Pancrase.

PETEY MY HEART!


Every fight wasn't BS but he never showed the heart of a true Champion.


Vs Pat Smith - real leglock on an inexperienced opponent

Vs Royce Gracie - loss. he tried to keep fighting after tapping

Vs Leninger, a win. Big deal.

Vs Felix Mitchell, a win. Big deal

Vs Dan Severn - a win. Studied Severn's style and executed his one strategy, a Guillotine, and it worked.

Vs Oleg - A draw, but Oleg was another phony.

Vs Kimo 1 - a win. Probably a work.

Vs Severn 2 - Loss

Vs Brian Johnstone - a win but then pulled out of the tournament due to a broken hand.

Vs Don Frye - Loss in what appeared to be a stiff work.

vs Fujita - Loss

Vs Otsuka - Win by punches, but were the Japanese padding his record?

Vs Kimo 2 - Win by knee KO, in an obvious work.

Vs Franklin - Loss, but in an obviously worked fight.

Vs Saku - loss. he took a dive without Saku's knowledge. Give me the money.


Vs Ortiz - Loss. Every fight was as good as fake. Ken never turned up to win.


Vs Robert Berry - Loss by KO. This is what happens when you fight serious opponents.

Vs Ross Clifton - Win by submission in an obvious worked fight in the Ken Shamrock Productions Promotion.

Vs Pedro Rizzo - loss by humiliating TKO


Vs Johathon Ivey - Win in some country bumpkin show.

Vs Mike Bourke - Loss by TKO

Vs Kimbo Slice - Loss by TKO

Vs Royce Gracie 3 - Loss by TKO

Kimbo and Royce 3 were also obvious works.
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12-19-2017, 07:18 PM
Post: #13
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
(12-19-2017 04:17 AM)EVILYOSHIDA Wrote:  re the saku fight.. the shot did land pretty hard though and Ken was already over the hill by then. still 50/50 for me. the j-orgs usually don't work it for the japanese fighter as they are masochist and don't mind seeing their own get beat down.





Yes but Ken knew he wasn't going to win the fight. He turned up to collect his pay check, as soon as Saku hit him with something he surrendered.

Quote:Kimbo and Royce 3 were also obvious works.

I agree about the Kimbo fight, but I think Royce deliberately kicked Ken in the nuts and Ken used it as his way out of the fight, thinking it might be a DQ.

I'm just trying to figure this shit out like you are.
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12-20-2017, 12:38 AM
Post: #14
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
Quote:Yes but Ken knew he wasn't going to win the fight. He turned up to collect his pay check, as soon as Saku hit him with something he surrendered.

agree with this. It looked like he gave up in the first sign of trouble. I do not believe anyone would pay ken to lose on purpose as sak was basically already a punching bag at that point.

i think he just didn't take it seriously and folded the first time he got hit.

it is suspicious though because sak isn't known for his KO power, but at the same time he almost KOed wand.
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12-23-2017, 06:45 PM
Post: #15
RE: Ken and Frank Shamrock settle their feud
I just watched the entire video, and even though I bagged out Ken for his MMA career, he came across as quite a decent person in this video.

Frank is the one who comes across as a messed up person. I do think it was bad that he didn't make peace with Bob Shamrock when he had the chance, and it obviously eats him up now. Also the way he treated his real brother when he wrote to Frank asking for help. Frank says "He didn't look real good the last time I saw him, I'm worried", but that was 7-8 years ago. If he had really been worried he wouldn't have waited all this time to try and find him, and then give him nothing anyway.
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