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The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
03-10-2016, 01:41 PM
Post: #1
The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
[Image: 300px-Adams-10.png]
John Adams, 2nd US president, R1B DNA


Quote:[Image: Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG]

[Image: 793px-Expansion_of_Afroasiatic.svg.png]

The origin and development of the African haplogroup R1b

R1b1 (P25) people might have been among the first people to domesticate cattle in eastern Anatolia and northern Mesopotamia/Syria during the Pre-Pottery Neolithic period.... the V88 branch migrated south to the Levant, then to Africa, following the Nile Valley until the Sahel, then spreading westward.

Although human Y chromosomes belonging to haplogroup R1b are quite rare in Africa, being found mainly in Asia and Europe, a group of chromosomes within the paragroup R-P25* are found concentrated in the central-western part of the African continent, where they can be detected at frequencies as high as 95%. Phylogenetic evidence and coalescence time estimates suggest that R-P25* chromosomes (or their phylogenetic ancestor) may have been carried to Africa by an Asia-to-Africa back migration in prehistoric times.

The analysis of the distribution of the R-V88 haplogroup in >1800 males from 69 African populations revealed a striking genetic contiguity between the Chadic-speaking peoples from the central Sahel and several other Afroasiatic-speaking groups from North Africa. The R-V88 coalescence time was estimated at 9200–5600 kya, in the early mid Holocene.

We suggest that R-V88 is a paternal genetic record of the proposed mid-Holocene migration of proto-Chadic Afroasiatic speakers through the Central Sahara into the Lake Chad Basin, and geomorphological evidence is consistent with this view.
https://aratta.wordpress.com/2015/04/11/...group-r1b/

That's 3000-8000 BC. They moved to Lake Chad.

Quote:The R1b1*-in-Africa mystery thickens. At first, these typically Eurasian chromosomes had been found in Cameroon, but they seem to be found in many populations
...
A remarkable finding of our study is the substantial number of individuals belonging to haplogroup R1b1* (5.2%). Surprisingly, it has been previously observed in northern Cameroon (40%) at high frequencies (Cruciani et al. 2002),
...
It is noteworthy that the Fang population is the Bantu agriculturalist group presenting the highest frequency of R1b1*. The presence of the Fang in west Central Africa appears to be recent and they 20 are thought to have entered the region from the north-eastern open grassland plateau during the 17th and 18th centuries (Perrois 2006).
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/04/pat...nsion.html

Quote:In human genetics, Haplogroup R1b is the most frequently occurring Y-chromosome haplogroup in Western Europe, parts of central Eurasia (for example Bashkortostan), and in parts of sub-Saharan Central Africa (for example around Chad and Cameroon). ...
R1b1c is found in northern Cameroon in west central Africa at a very high frequency, where it is considered to be caused by a pre-Islamic movement of people from Eurasia.
[Image: Cameroon_2.jpg]

[Image: R1b_map.jpg]


Quote:But, how did T and R1b end up in Northern Cameroon in the first place where they are outliers?

Here is a plausible story.

Northern Cameroon is where you get dumped if you follow the White Nile to its source and then hop over a very low mountain range to the next river system over which is one or two more days journey on foot.

My hypothesis is that both T and R1b expand up the Nile Valley from the Near East/Balkans, follow it up the White Nile get dumped in North Cameroon. They can't go any further since Niger-Congo speaking Y-DNA type E haplotypes with farming suited to the region (Sahel farming slightly predates Near Eastern farming) are already established and in the way


Footnote on the History of R1b and R1a


As a footnote, many people associate Y-DNA type R1a with the proto-Indo-Europeans. The association shows up in India (it is most common in high caste Indo-European language speakers), but I doubt that R1a is specific to Indo-Europeans in Europe. More likely, R1b and R1a constitute two different wings of the early Neolithic farmers that brough the Near Eastern agricultural package to Europe. R1a is a fit to the Linear Pottery culture and its cultural descendants that brought agriculture up from the Balkans through the river basins of Eastern Europe and expanded to towards Central Europe from there; while R1b, the Atlantic modal haplotype, is a fit to the early Neolithic population that expanded along the Mediterranean and Atlantic coasts associated with the Corded Ware culture and its successors and also with the megalithic structures seen in the Atlantic area.

In my view, as expressed in my previous previous post, the Indo-Europeans, whose defining genetic tell is the Anatolian J2 haplotype (a good argument for an Anatolian or Caucasian homeland for the Indo-Europeans rather than a Balkan or Central Asian one, by the way), came much later. R1a, in contrast in my view, is likely to be a haplotype associated was a pre-Indo-European farmers who may have either turned to herding when they reached Central Asia (herding emerges contemporaneously with the emergence of farming, unlike hunter-gatherer lifestyles which far precede both), or may have been a deeper substrate of the farming population to which which J2 people (associated with origins in Mesopotamia and Anatolia) were added later on, that merged into the proto-Indo-European peoples not long before they entered India.
http://washparkprophet.blogspot.com/2010...netic.html

So the north Cameroon people are closer related to Celts than Celts are to Russians?


Here on the map on this link you can see how R1B spread to both Cameroon and to the Tocharians in West China and to Ireland:
Quote:[Image: image009.jpg]
Back migrations

The earliest known back migration of R1b was from Asia to Africa and took place around 15,000 years ago. A group of R1b1* people moving from the Levant to Egypt, Sudan and spreading in different directions inside Africa to Rwanda, South Africa, Namibia, Angola, Congo, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, Cameroon, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Guinea-Bissau. The hotspot is Cameroon. R1b1* was observed at a frequency of up to 95% in some tribes of northern Cameroon (like the Kirdi), and about 15% nationwide. It is in all likelihood where the early R1b people first settled, then spread south and east along the coast.
http://wanclik.free.fr/eupedia.htm

[Image: kirdi-village-and-volcanic-plugs-rhumsik...a64103.jpg]
Kirdi village

[Image: kirdi-village-near-rhumsiki-cameroon-a56n24.jpg]

Girls from Fang tribe:
[Image: fang1.jpg]
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03-10-2016, 02:50 PM
Post: #2
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
(03-10-2016 01:41 PM)Rako Wrote:  So the north Cameroon people are closer related to Celts than Celts are to Russians?

I can't verify the accuracy of this chart, but:

[Image: 1tS9P5B.jpg]
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03-10-2016, 02:53 PM
Post: #3
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
(03-10-2016 02:50 PM)CTsar Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 01:41 PM)Rako Wrote:  So the north Cameroon people are closer related to Celts than Celts are to Russians?

I can't verify the accuracy of this chart, but:

[Image: 1tS9P5B.jpg]


damn negros are that far from samoans? i thought they'd be closer due to hair, skin and athleticism.
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03-10-2016, 02:57 PM
Post: #4
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
[Image: fAnzINC.png]
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03-10-2016, 03:00 PM
Post: #5
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
(03-10-2016 02:53 PM)DonJohnson Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 02:50 PM)CTsar Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 01:41 PM)Rako Wrote:  So the north Cameroon people are closer related to Celts than Celts are to Russians?

I can't verify the accuracy of this chart, but:

[Image: 1tS9P5B.jpg]


damn negros are that far from samoans? i thought they'd be closer due to hair, skin and athleticism.

Visually, Tongas are negroer. Samoans look more Asian than black.
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03-10-2016, 04:42 PM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2016 04:45 PM by Rako.)
Post: #6
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
[Image: web_108097_400px.jpg]
Lake Chad

Quote:Ancient Egypt’s Lost Legacy?
The Buduma Culture of Lake Chad

http://www.mothertongue.us/pdfs/The_Budu...Immega.pdf

It showed an ancient Egyptian painting of a man playing
an arched harp, identical to the Biram harp of the
Buduma people. I wondered if the Buduma were
culturally connected to ancient Egypt. Now, twenty-five
years after seeing the poster, and forty-five years after
my stay in Africa, I’m able to connect the clues. In
addition to papyrus boats and the arched harp, the
Buduma have Kuri cattle (a unique, water-adapted
breed) and speak Yedina, a Chadic language related to
Ancient Egyptian.
Five thousand years ago, at the start of the Early
Dynastic Period, the Sahel and Sahara were green, with
abundant game and forage Lake Mega-Chad had an area up to 10 times larger than Lake Chad in the 1960s. The lake had gigantic Nile perch, crocodiles, hippos, and papyrus reeds. Lake Chad is 1800
kilometers to the west of the Egypt (15), less than two months by donkey caravan from the similar environment of the Nile River. The Abu Ballas Trailacross the Sahara (12, 17) connects these two regions.

For three thousand years, ancient Egypt was the dominant super-power in North Africa. Its language and culture spread to other regions south of the Sahara. Ancient Egyptian traders may have settled at Lake Chad
and founded the fiercely independent Sao people –
reputed to be giants. They brought with them papyrus
boatbuilding, fishing, Egyptian cattle, musical
instruments and Afroasiatic language roots.


...
The Origin of Chadic Languages
...
Analysis of the distribution of the R-V88
haplogroup reveals a striking genetic link between the
Chadic-speaking peoples of the central Sahel and other
Afroasiatic-speaking groups in North Africa. The origin
of R-V88 may have been as early as 7200 BC in the
Levant. Cruciani suggests that R-V88 is a paternal
genetic record of an early mid-Holocene migration of
proto-Chadic Afroasiatic speakers through Egypt and
across the central Sahara into the Chad Basin.

T h e R - V 8 8 m i g r a t i o n i s c o n s i s t e n t w i t h
geomorphological evidence that during the Holocene
Climatic Optimum the Sahara had a monsoonal moist
climate. This was a period when the giant paleolakes of
Lake Mega-Chad may have provided a green corridor
for pastoral nomads with recently domesticated goats
or cattle to across what is now the Sahara desert.

The Buduma may be descended from these early
Chadic-speaking migrants (who also may have settled
in the Nile Valley). If so, they predated dynastic Egypt.
It is even possible that some Egyptian cultural features of the Buduma (papyrus boats, biram harp, etc.) may
have originated in the Lake Chad Basin – and later
spread back to Nile.

Click on link below for photo:
[Image: z.gif]
Quote:Here is an old postcard depicting two young men feeding a crocodile on the shores of Lake Chad in the African nation of Chad that was produced sometime during the 1970's...
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/1120197/36116325/in/keyword/314467/self

Seems dangerous.

[Image: chad-central-northern-africa-lake-chad-t...b1wfkx.jpg]
Papyrus boat on Lake Chad
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03-10-2016, 04:54 PM
Post: #7
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
DNA... the human genome... all social constructs.
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03-10-2016, 05:07 PM
Post: #8
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
all in your head. you can be whatever race you identify with.

[Image: 6q3FgW2.jpg]
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03-10-2016, 10:45 PM
Post: #9
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
(03-10-2016 01:41 PM)Rako Wrote:  [Image: 300px-Adams-10.png]
John Adams, 2nd US president, R1B DNA


Quote:[Image: Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG]

[Image: 793px-Expansion_of_Afroasiatic.svg.png]

The origin and development of the African haplogroup R1b

R1b1 (P25) people might have been among the first people to domesticate cattle in eastern Anatolia and northern Mesopotamia/Syria during the Pre-Pottery Neolithic period.... the V88 branch migrated south to the Levant, then to Africa, following the Nile Valley until the Sahel, then spreading westward.

Although human Y chromosomes belonging to haplogroup R1b are quite rare in Africa, being found mainly in Asia and Europe, a group of chromosomes within the paragroup R-P25* are found concentrated in the central-western part of the African continent, where they can be detected at frequencies as high as 95%. Phylogenetic evidence and coalescence time estimates suggest that R-P25* chromosomes (or their phylogenetic ancestor) may have been carried to Africa by an Asia-to-Africa back migration in prehistoric times.

The analysis of the distribution of the R-V88 haplogroup in >1800 males from 69 African populations revealed a striking genetic contiguity between the Chadic-speaking peoples from the central Sahel and several other Afroasiatic-speaking groups from North Africa. The R-V88 coalescence time was estimated at 9200–5600 kya, in the early mid Holocene.

We suggest that R-V88 is a paternal genetic record of the proposed mid-Holocene migration of proto-Chadic Afroasiatic speakers through the Central Sahara into the Lake Chad Basin, and geomorphological evidence is consistent with this view.
https://aratta.wordpress.com/2015/04/11/...group-r1b/

That's 3000-8000 BC. They moved to Lake Chad.

Quote:The R1b1*-in-Africa mystery thickens. At first, these typically Eurasian chromosomes had been found in Cameroon, but they seem to be found in many populations
...
A remarkable finding of our study is the substantial number of individuals belonging to haplogroup R1b1* (5.2%). Surprisingly, it has been previously observed in northern Cameroon (40%) at high frequencies (Cruciani et al. 2002),
...
It is noteworthy that the Fang population is the Bantu agriculturalist group presenting the highest frequency of R1b1*. The presence of the Fang in west Central Africa appears to be recent and they 20 are thought to have entered the region from the north-eastern open grassland plateau during the 17th and 18th centuries (Perrois 2006).
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/04/pat...nsion.html

Quote:In human genetics, Haplogroup R1b is the most frequently occurring Y-chromosome haplogroup in Western Europe, parts of central Eurasia (for example Bashkortostan), and in parts of sub-Saharan Central Africa (for example around Chad and Cameroon). ...
R1b1c is found in northern Cameroon in west central Africa at a very high frequency, where it is considered to be caused by a pre-Islamic movement of people from Eurasia.
[Image: Cameroon_2.jpg]

[Image: R1b_map.jpg]


Quote:But, how did T and R1b end up in Northern Cameroon in the first place where they are outliers?

Here is a plausible story.

Northern Cameroon is where you get dumped if you follow the White Nile to its source and then hop over a very low mountain range to the next river system over which is one or two more days journey on foot.

My hypothesis is that both T and R1b expand up the Nile Valley from the Near East/Balkans, follow it up the White Nile get dumped in North Cameroon. They can't go any further since Niger-Congo speaking Y-DNA type E haplotypes with farming suited to the region (Sahel farming slightly predates Near Eastern farming) are already established and in the way


Footnote on the History of R1b and R1a


As a footnote, many people associate Y-DNA type R1a with the proto-Indo-Europeans. The association shows up in India (it is most common in high caste Indo-European language speakers), but I doubt that R1a is specific to Indo-Europeans in Europe. More likely, R1b and R1a constitute two different wings of the early Neolithic farmers that brough the Near Eastern agricultural package to Europe. R1a is a fit to the Linear Pottery culture and its cultural descendants that brought agriculture up from the Balkans through the river basins of Eastern Europe and expanded to towards Central Europe from there; while R1b, the Atlantic modal haplotype, is a fit to the early Neolithic population that expanded along the Mediterranean and Atlantic coasts associated with the Corded Ware culture and its successors and also with the megalithic structures seen in the Atlantic area.

In my view, as expressed in my previous previous post, the Indo-Europeans, whose defining genetic tell is the Anatolian J2 haplotype (a good argument for an Anatolian or Caucasian homeland for the Indo-Europeans rather than a Balkan or Central Asian one, by the way), came much later. R1a, in contrast in my view, is likely to be a haplotype associated was a pre-Indo-European farmers who may have either turned to herding when they reached Central Asia (herding emerges contemporaneously with the emergence of farming, unlike hunter-gatherer lifestyles which far precede both), or may have been a deeper substrate of the farming population to which which J2 people (associated with origins in Mesopotamia and Anatolia) were added later on, that merged into the proto-Indo-European peoples not long before they entered India.
http://washparkprophet.blogspot.com/2010...netic.html

So the north Cameroon people are closer related to Celts than Celts are to Russians?


Here on the map on this link you can see how R1B spread to both Cameroon and to the Tocharians in West China and to Ireland:
Quote:[Image: image009.jpg]
Back migrations

The earliest known back migration of R1b was from Asia to Africa and took place around 15,000 years ago. A group of R1b1* people moving from the Levant to Egypt, Sudan and spreading in different directions inside Africa to Rwanda, South Africa, Namibia, Angola, Congo, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, Cameroon, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Guinea-Bissau. The hotspot is Cameroon. R1b1* was observed at a frequency of up to 95% in some tribes of northern Cameroon (like the Kirdi), and about 15% nationwide. It is in all likelihood where the early R1b people first settled, then spread south and east along the coast.
http://wanclik.free.fr/eupedia.htm

[Image: kirdi-village-and-volcanic-plugs-rhumsik...a64103.jpg]
Kirdi village

[Image: kirdi-village-near-rhumsiki-cameroon-a56n24.jpg]

Girls from Fang tribe:
[Image: fang1.jpg]



The older fellow taking the oath above the map bears a striking resemblance to my uncle Dafydd Cadoc Llywelyn ap Morgan of Abergavenny.

Except he's lacking, you know, the red hair and freckles. Uncanny, really!

dead soul
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03-11-2016, 06:21 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2016 06:49 AM by Rako.)
Post: #10
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
(03-10-2016 10:45 PM)Megatherium Wrote:  The older fellow taking the oath above the map bears a striking resemblance to my uncle Dafydd Cadoc Llywelyn ap Morgan of Abergavenny.

Except he's lacking, you know, the red hair and freckles. Uncanny, really!

I used him because he does look to me like a black skinned version of a curly haired relative of mine who is found to be R1B. The cranium has similar shape.

When you are in the desert for 10,000 years, supposedly over generations he skin gets darker.

This is an R1B photo:
[Image: Chad_3.jpg]
If you just change the desert skin color, the person' physionomy looks interchangeable to me.
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03-11-2016, 07:57 AM
Post: #11
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
This is all afrocentric trying to force the false belief that life started from blacks in Africa.

--I Eat Grits--
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11-18-2016, 06:05 PM
Post: #12
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
(03-10-2016 01:41 PM)Rako Wrote:  [Image: 300px-Adams-10.png]
John Adams, 2nd US president, R1B DNA


Quote:[Image: Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG]

[Image: 793px-Expansion_of_Afroasiatic.svg.png]

The origin and development of the African haplogroup R1b

R1b1 (P25) people might have been among the first people to domesticate cattle in eastern Anatolia and northern Mesopotamia/Syria during the Pre-Pottery Neolithic period.... the V88 branch migrated south to the Levant, then to Africa, following the Nile Valley until the Sahel, then spreading westward.

Although human Y chromosomes belonging to haplogroup R1b are quite rare in Africa, being found mainly in Asia and Europe, a group of chromosomes within the paragroup R-P25* are found concentrated in the central-western part of the African continent, where they can be detected at frequencies as high as 95%. Phylogenetic evidence and coalescence time estimates suggest that R-P25* chromosomes (or their phylogenetic ancestor) may have been carried to Africa by an Asia-to-Africa back migration in prehistoric times.

The high amount of R1b in Cameroon is quite strange for me to understand.

The remains of a boy of haplogroup "R", called MAL'TA BOY, was found near Lake Baikal from thousands of years ago.

The lands inhabited by people with R1 and R2 DNA seem to border each other in Norther India.

R1-M DNA is found in Canada, while R1A and R1B are found in Europe and Russia and Central Asia. All of these facts would suggest that the homeland of R1 DNA is in Central Asia, Russia or Siberia.

And yet somehow we have the colony of R1B DNA in Cameroon where the people seem to look a lot like other Subsaharan Africans.

It's strange.
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04-15-2019, 02:29 AM
Post: #13
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
The genetic structure of the world's first farmers (Lazaridis et al. 2016 preprint)
Quote:Huge one from the Laz at bioRxiv:

We report genome-wide ancient DNA from 44 ancient Near Easterners ranging in time between ~12,000-1,400 BCE, from Natufian hunter-gatherers to Bronze Age farmers. We show that the earliest populations of the Near East derived around half their ancestry from a 'Basal Eurasian' lineage that had little if any Neanderthal admixture and that separated from other non-African lineages prior to their separation from each other. The first farmers of the southern Levant (Israel and Jordan) and Zagros Mountains (Iran) were strongly genetically differentiated, and each descended from local hunter-gatherers. By the time of the Bronze Age, these two populations and Anatolian-related farmers had mixed with each other and with the hunter-gatherers of Europe to drastically reduce genetic differentiation. The impact of the Near Eastern farmers extended beyond the Near East: farmers related to those of Anatolia spread westward into Europe; farmers related to those of the Levant spread southward into East Africa; farmers related to those from Iran spread northward into the Eurasian steppe; and people related to both the early farmers of Iran and to the pastoralists of the Eurasian steppe spread eastward into South Asia.

Nature: Genomic insights into the origin of farming in the ancient Near East
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04-15-2019, 02:34 AM
Post: #14
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
Haplogroup R1b
[Image: R1b-tree.png]
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04-15-2019, 02:41 AM
Post: #15
RE: The Cetic-like people (R1b DNA) of north Cameroon?
(03-11-2016 07:57 AM)Billygoat Wrote:  This is all afrocentric trying to force the false belief that life started from blacks in Africa.

Boom. Trying to convince western Europeans "Its all natural, what is happening."

If you want a real scare, do some research into African languages.
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