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Full Version: Daily Mail reader's statement on UKraine crisis
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The vote ups for comments made at the Daily Mail comments sections of Ukraine articles are lopsidedly in favour of the pro-federalization position. Here's one of a number of gems:

Quote:goeasynow, Chester, United Kingdom, 18 hours ago

Astonishing hypocrisy from politicians in the UK/US/EU who with the full support of the CIA & US State Dept, the IMF & NATO planned this every step of the way. They supported to the tune of $5B the Right-Sector - knowing them to be Nazi-supporting fascists, sending MEP's from Germany, Sweden, Netherlands & Poland to 'advise' the current junta. Putin surprised them by not doing what they thought he would do, and he still won't. The internet and social media allows us, the people, to research the appalling propaganda UK/US media throw at us. We see the truth. Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us. you will never, ever be able to fool the people again. Not ever. We have the power now, and we will make you pay - at the polls. Our revolution will be legal. Unlike your mineral/oil/gas based land grabs from sovereign states. You are vile, greedy, hypocrites with no thought for the deaths you have caused by your illegal actions throughout the world. We will remember.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z30mi1hL9J
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It's also now being reported that UKIP are leading the polls for the EU parliamentary elections.
Mainstream Media was nowhere to be found the day that Cliven Bundy and the American people said no, you can't do this.

There was not a peep until over a week later when they took the 'Cliven Bundy is a racist' spin.

If you had seen what happened live and how amazing it was, you would never quote MSM as a factual source ever again.

Mainstream Media is beyond a joke.
I have faith in the media
true some of it has been corrupted by left wing elements your cNn etc
Have to get it from a source without the spin, a no spin zone if you will

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(05-05-2014 07:42 AM)Winnson Wrote: [ -> ]Mainstream Media was nowhere to be found the day that Cliven Bundy and the American people said no, you can't do this.

There was not a peep until over a week later when they took the 'Cliven Bundy is a racist' spin.

If you had seen what happened live and how amazing it was, you would never quote MSM as a factual source ever again.

Mainstream Media is beyond a joke.

.
(05-05-2014 07:34 AM)BRIC Countries Wrote: [ -> ]It's also now being reported that UKIP are leading the polls for the EU parliamentary elections.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics...dbath.html

Quote: Senior Liberal Democrats have privately been warned that the party could be left with no MEPs after next month’s European Parliament elections.

Senior party figures were warned that the party’s electoral unpopularity meant that the party was facing seeing its 11 MEPs lose all their seats.

...

One insider told The Daily Telegraph “it is looking like an absolute bloodbath”.

Party sources are warning of a “cratering” of support across the country, with the vote in the East Midlands, for example, forecast to fall from 130,000 to 13,000.

The informal forecasts echo polling which consistently puts the LibDems in a distant fourth behind the UK Independence Party, Labour and the Conservatives.

And when you sort the nearly 3000 comments by "Best", the first one you see is "This comment was deleted." hahaha
If Ukrainians want the EU deal, I suppose the best thing to do is let them have it. Of course, East Ukrainians have the right to ask for federalization too.
(05-05-2014 10:15 AM)Rako Wrote: [ -> ]If Ukrainians want the EU deal, I suppose the best thing to do is let them have it. Of course, East Ukrainians have the right to ask for federalization too.

The Narcissist-and-Chief disagrees.
(05-05-2014 10:18 AM)BRIC Countries Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-05-2014 10:15 AM)Rako Wrote: [ -> ]If Ukrainians want the EU deal, I suppose the best thing to do is let them have it. Of course, East Ukrainians have the right to ask for federalization too.

The Narcissist-and-Chief disagrees.
Actually, somewhat more Ukrainians wanted the EU deal than opposed it, but it was still not a majority either way.
(05-05-2014 10:25 AM)Rako Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-05-2014 10:18 AM)BRIC Countries Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-05-2014 10:15 AM)Rako Wrote: [ -> ]If Ukrainians want the EU deal, I suppose the best thing to do is let them have it. Of course, East Ukrainians have the right to ask for federalization too.

The Narcissist-and-Chief disagrees.
Actually, somewhat more Ukrainians wanted the EU deal than opposed it, but it was still not a majority either way.

I was referring to federalization.

It's true what you say, and it's also true that the two-time deposed PM, Yanokovich, had offered to sign this deal, while maintaining trade ties with Russia, a situation the EU fascists (and their Ukrainian patsies) found unacceptable. And, the rest, as they say...
Alot of Ukrainians have had a "who cares" attitude. Otherwise they would have fought in Crimea. They were not willing to put themselves through a meat grinder with the Crimeans if the latter decided to rejoin Russia. A lot of Ukrainians aren't interested in taking a strong stand for either side. As a whole they slightly favor the EU side because the EU has more money, has a better functioning, more modern republic.

Ukrainians haven't been resistant enough to the Euromaidan-backed sniper forces, the looting of their treasury, or their elected government's overthrow to change course from where those things are aimed. Many of the Euromaidan people don't even know what the terms of the deal are.

Russia can't "make" Ukrainians or their rulers do the right thing like in the Tsarist days. I don't know if you've ever met people from West Ukraine, but it's harder to imagine them taking a pro-Russian stand than a pro-EU stand even if their treasury gets looted, etc. The Poles converted them to Catholicism a few centuries ago, and since then they've been more pro-Western, even though they still gave the Poles and Germans a lot of trouble during those centuries. It didn't help that they had a bad experience with Stalin because he was not particularly pro-Ukrainian and allowed the Holodomor, while repressing Catholicism.
(05-05-2014 10:43 AM)Rako Wrote: [ -> ]Alot of Ukrainians have had a "who cares" attitude. Otherwise they would have fought in Crimea. They were not willing to put themselves through a meat grinder with the Crimeans if the latter decided to rejoin Russia. A lot of Ukrainians aren't interested in taking a strong stand for either side. As a whole they slightly favor the EU side because the EU has more money, has a better functioning, more modern republic.

Ukrainians haven't been resistant enough to the Euromaidan-backed sniper forces, the looting of their treasury, or their elected government's overthrow to change course from where those things are aimed. Many of the Euromaidan people don't even know what the terms of the deal are.

Russia can't "make" Ukrainians or their rulers do the right thing like in the Tsarist days. I don't know if you've ever met people from West Ukraine, but it's harder to imagine them taking a pro-Russian stand than a pro-EU stand even if their treasury gets looted, etc. The Poles converted them to Catholicism a few centuries ago, and since then they've been more pro-Western, even though they still gave the Poles and Germans a lot of trouble during those centuries. It didn't help that they had a bad experience with Stalin because he was not particularly pro-Ukrainian and allowed the Holodomor, while repressing Catholicism.

I agree about the indifference - politics is generally something that people are forced into, not something they join out of leisure. But the country, Ukraine, is also very split, a point that is rarely acknowledged in the West.

I would say you're getting the roles reversed as far the major powers' influence there, as Russia doesn't seem to be the major power bent on getting Ukraine to do as it pleases; rather, it's the Americans and EU fascists who are.

Not that I'm suggesting that Russia wouldn't prefer a pro-Russian Ukrainian government; I'm suggesting, rather, that it had not employed a very aggressive subversive strategy to achieve this goal -- and the point still applies even after Russia's actions in Crimea (what I would interpret as motivated by self-defence, rather than aggression).

As far as the perception held of Moscow by Ukrainians because of Stalin, again, you seem to be ignoring the part that a segment of the Ukrainian population, mostly located in the East and South, don't share this negative view of Russia or Putin. And even for those who do, it doesn't necessarily translate into a favourable view of the fascists in power in Kiev.

It's a complicated situation on the ground as far as allegiances are concerned. What's more clear is that the West is the main cause of the events that transpired in the country, leading up to the coup against Yanokovich. What's also pretty clear is that the goal behind Western support for the Maiden coup isn't the "prize" of having Ukraine join the EU; rather, the goal is the prize of destroying Russia and turning it back to vassal status, much like under the period of Yeltsin's "rule".
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