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Full Version: What really happened at Chappaquiddick?
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The Story that Ted was driving the car in which Mary Jo drowned

Quote:Now, a year after Kennedy died, his lifelong biographer Burton Hersh, armed with fresh interviews with Kennedy's mistress at the time, tells Whispers that the whole July 1969 episode should have been handled as a simple crash, leaving the senator's legacy untainted. "It was a car accident," he says. "Ted was a terrible driver. He never paid much attention to where he was going."
https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washin...k-accident

Quote:Conspiracy Theories in American History: An Encyclopedia
edited by Peter Knight

The limited popularity of frame up theories about the accident is due in part to their fundamental implausibility. ...Why would he plead guilty before a local judge the week after the accident? ...Why, in other words, would Kennedy do the conspirators' work for them by confessing to a reputation-damaging act that he knew he did not commit?

Nor can ... theories [wherein Ted killed Mary Jo or knocked her unconscious, thinking she was dead, and staged the accident] account for the dark tire marks that law enforcement officers observed on the bridge deck the morning after the accident. The marks suggest a car skidding with locked brakes - an image fully compatible with an accident, but virtually impossible to stage on the spur of the moment... Allegations that she was pregnant by Kennedy are equally dubious....

Quote:Debunking the myths about Chappaquiddick…and Mary Jo
[Image: ted-kennedy-neckbrace.jpg]
Left: Senator Ted Kennedy, age 37, attends Mary Jo Kopechne’s funeral. Note the neck brace inside his collar.

MYTH: Ted Kennedy and Mary Jo Kopechne were having an affair.

FACT: Not bloody likely. According to Ayton: "Mary Jo called herself a “novena Catholic.” Her friends described her as a young woman who was seriously committed to her faith. She did not smoke and rarely drank. Everyone who knew her testified to the fact that she was a woman who was almost prudish in her dislike of obscene language and sexual impropriety. Furthermore, at the time of the incident, Mary Jo Kopechne had been unofficially engaged to be married to a career foreign service officer"

MYTH: Ted Kennedy murdered Mary Jo Kopechne to cover up an affair and/or pregnancy.

FACT: See above, and add “why the hell would he dirty his own hands (and risk his own life) to kill her if he was rich enough to pay a hitman?” The doctor who examined the body at the scene found no evidence of a pregnancy, either.

MYTH: Ted Kennedy didn’t care that Mary Jo was killed.

FACT: Since only he was privy to what was going through his own head that night, we have to rely on eyewitness accounts of his behavior in the aftermath of the accident. And all of them suggest that not only did Ted Kennedy care very much, he was badly broken up about it–to the point of hysteria. According to Ayton:

During their post-accident journey to the ferry, Kennedy kept saying to Gargan and Markham that he expected to see Mary Jo walking down the road. According to Gargan, Kennedy was rambling and verbalizing irrational thoughts – behavior that is consistent with individuals who are suffering from shock. Gargan said, “Sen. Kennedy was very emotional, extremely upset, very upset and he was using this expression… “Can you believe it, Joe, can you believe it, I don’t believe it, I don’t believe this could happen. I just don’t believe it.” Markham told the inquest that Kennedy was, “sobbing and almost of actually breaking down and crying. He said, ‘This couldn’t have happened, I don’t know how it happened…What am I going to do?'”
http://www.sabinabecker.com/2009/08/debu..._chap.html

Steven Hayward however proposes that the neck brace was not real:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/20...t-last.php

Suggestions that Mary Jo was alone in the car
Quote:Investigators found it difficult to understand why he was crossing Dyke Bridge when he said he was attempting to reach Edgartown which was in the opposite direction. They also could not understand why he was driving so fast on this unlit, uneven, road. They also could not work out how Kennedy escaped from the car. When it was recovered from the water all the doors were locked. Three of the windows were either open or smashed in. If Kennedy, a large-framed 6 foot 2 inches tall man could manage to get out of the car, why was it impossible for Mary Jo Kopechne, a slender 5 foot 2 inches tall, not do the same?
...
Other questions were asked about Kennedy's decision to swim back to Edgartown. The 150 metre channel had strong currents and only the strongest of swimmers would have been able to make the journey safely.

(2) John Simkin, Chappaquiddick and the Assassination of JFK (29th August, 2009)

Although he had been on the island many times Kennedy took the wrong turning. Locals claimed this was almost impossible to do. To make this wrong turn at this point the driver had to ignore: (1) A directional arrow of luminized glass pointing to the left; (2) The banking of the pavement to accommodate the sharp curve; (3) The white line down the centre of the road. (4) The fact that he was now driving on an unpaved road.
...
Therefore we have the situation where Edward Kennedy and Mary Jo Kopechne left the Lawrence Cottage at around 11.15 p.m. For some reason Kennedy returns to the cottage at 12.20 a.m. However, it is not to report the accident as at this stage the car has not yet had the accident on Dike Bridge .

Lieutenant George Killen, who investigated the case, was convinced that Kennedy had intended to have sex with Mary Jo in the car. He was drunk (evidence suppressed in court showed that Kennedy had consumed a great deal of alcohol that day). When Look approached Kennedy's car, he feared he would be arrested. Therefore he sped off into the darkness. Afraid that Look would catch him up he gets out of the car and persuades Mary Jo to drive off (she herself has consumed a fair amount of alcohol. Kennedy then walks back to the cottage. When Mary Jo does not return Kennedy becomes convinced she has had an accident. Kennedy then goes back to his hotel leaving Markham and Gargan to search for Mary Jo. It is not until the next morning they discover what has happened. They then go to Kennedy's hotel to tell him the news. This fits Killen idea that Kennedy did not know about the accident until the morning meeting with Markham and Gargan.

Killen's theory fits all the established facts in the case. However, it does not explain Kennedy's behaviour. Once he discovered that Mary Jo was dead, it would make far more sense to tell the truth. This story was more politically acceptable than the "leaving the scene of the accident" story. I therefore reject Killen's theory.
http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKkopechne.htm

The article above makes a good point. If Ted had left the car at 12:20 because he didn't want to get caught drunk and so had walked back to the cottage at 12:20, leaving Mary Joe to drive back by herself (whereupon she had the accident), why wouldn't he make that his story, since it would have shown him to be innocent of failing to report the accident?

Some theories go that she remained alive in the car until she used up the pocket of trapped air. Why couldn't she get out of the oveturned car in the water? Couldn't she unlock the door and open it and swim out?

"Car accident investigators... concluded that Kopechne was driving the car when it went off the bridge and that she was alone as no one else could have escaped from the vehicle." (http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKkopechne.htm)
Why couldn't someone escape the car?

The Story that Ted Was Not in the Car and Someone Else killed Mary Joe
Quote:JJohn Simkin, The Death of Mary Jo Kopechne (30th September, 2009)

im Arena, the Edgartown Chief of Police, claimed on camera that his investigation showed that Kennedy was not in the car when it went into the water. Lieutenant George Killen has already gone on record as saying something similar.
...
My own theory of what happened that night at Chappaquiddick includes the following: Mary Jo Kopechne worked as a secretary for George Smathers in 1963. She also shared an apartment with Nancy Carole Tyler, who worked for Bobby Baker. As a result, I suspect she had important information about the assassination of JFK. Like Grant Stockdale (Smathers’ business partner) she probably passed this information onto Robert and Edward Kennedy.

...Mary Jo has to be kept from talking. Edward is told to arrange a meeting with Mary Jo. Edward believes the idea is for Mary Jo to be frightened into not talking. However, the conspirators see it as an opportunity to prevent Edward from ever becoming president.

Edward leaves the party with Mary Jo and takes her by car to a place where she is to be “frightened”. Edward is then taken by boat to his hotel in Edgartown.

The conspirators then murder Mary Jo (drugged and then drowned). The car is driven at speed towards Dyke Road Bridge to provide the tyre markings that will implicate Kennedy in her death. Mary Jo is then placed in the passenger seat and the car which is then pushed off the Dyke Road Bridge.
http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKkopechne.htm


The Story that Ted did not drive the car with Mary Jo in it


Quote:Ted Kennedy and Chappaquiddick, the true story

The dreadful truth of that night is well-known among Kennedy staffers and his surviving family, and it is that Teddy was nowhere near the car when the accident occurred.

What happened was a reunion party of Bobby Kennedy campaign volunteers a year after his assassination which Teddy attended, making a thank-you speech and drinking vigorously. He was booked into the same hotel as Mary-Jo, a 19-year-old virgin, whom he offered a lift for whatever reason, planning to seduce her perhaps, or not.

They set off together in the car, and several of the party revellers saw them go, with Teddy at the wheel. A quarter mile down the dirt road, Teddy saw up ahead a parked police car. He pulled over. He told Mary-Jo he couldn’t be seen in charge of a car in his drunken condition, it would cause a headline, it would harm his political career. “I’ll get out, and walk to the hotel,” he said. “You drive, and I’ll see you there.” She agreed and drove off, passing the police car unnoticed.
...
Political advisers flew in and phoned him, and the problem was chaotically discussed. He had been seen driving away in the car with the girl, and the police already knew this. She drowned in his car. What to do? What to say? If he said he wasn’t in the car at the time, would he be believed? It might look like he murdered her. So a story was fabricated that he was at the wheel, and he took the wrong road, and the car drove off the bridge and into the water, and he got out, but she didn’t, and he repeatedly dived to rescue her, and couldn’t find her, and he crawled ashore, groggy, and went to the hotel and … went to bed. Immediately he was asked why he didn’t inform the police, and why he left the scene of an accident, and the whole story fell apart.
...
Mary-Jo’s parents demanded an autopsy to discover a certain medical fact. And it was as they expected. She died a virgin.
https://www.crikey.com.au/2009/08/27/ted...rue-story/

The Story that Ted was knocked out and then Mary Jo was driven off the bridge

Quote:Here is what happened according to Cutler's analysis of the evidence. The Group hired several men and at least one woman to be at Chappaquiddick during the weekend of the yacht race and the planned party on the island. They ambushed Ted and Mary Jo after they left the cottage and knocked Ted out with blows to his head and body. They took the unconscious or semi-conscious Kennedy to Martha's Vineyard and deposited him in his hotel room. Another group took Mary Jo to the bridge in Ted's car, force fed her with a knock out potion of alcoholic beverage, placed her in the back seat, and caused the car to accelerate off the side of the bridge into the water. They broke the windows on one side of the car to insure the entry of water; then they watched the car until they were sure Mary Jo would not escape.
Mary Jo actually regained consciousness and pushed her way to the top of the car (which was actually the bottom of the car -- it had landed on its roof) and died from asphyxiation. The group with Teddy revived him early in the morning and let him know he had a problem. Possibly they told him that Mary Jo had been kidnapped. They told him his children would be killed if he told anyone what had happened and that he would hear from them. On Chappaquiddick, the other group made contact with Markham and Gargan, Ted's cousin and lawyer. They told both men that Mary Jo was at the bottom of the river and that Ted would have to make up a story about it, not revealing the existence of the group. One of the men resembled Ted and his voice sounded something like Ted's. Markham and Gargan were instructed to go the the Vineyard on the morning ferry, tell Ted where Mary Jo was, and come back to the island to wait for a phone call at a pay station near the ferry on the Chappaquiddick side.
The two men did as they were told and Ted found out what had happened to Mary Jo that morning. The three men returned to the pay phone and received their instructions to concoct a story about the "accident" and to report it to the police. The threat against Ted's children was repeated at that time.
Ted, Markham and Gargan went right away to police chief Arena's office on the Vineyard where Ted reported the so-called "accident." Almost at the same time scuba diver John Farror was pulling Mary Jo out of the water, since two boys who had gone fishing earlier that morning had spotted the car and reported it.
Ted called together a small coterie of friends and advisors including family lawyer Burke Marshall, Robert MacNamara, Ted Sorenson, and others. They met on Squaw Island near the Kennedy compound at Hyannisport for three days. At the end of that time they had manufactured the story which Ted told on TV, and later at the inquest. Bob Cutler calls the story, "the shroud." Even the most cursory examination of the story shows it was full of holes and an impossible explanation of what happened. Ted's claim that he made the wrong turn down the dirt road toward the bridge by mistake is an obvious lie. His claim that he swam the channel back to Martha's Vineyard is not believable. His description of how he got out of the car under water and then dove down to try to rescue Mary Jo is impossible. Markham and Gargan's claims that they kept diving after Mary Jo are also unbelievable.

The evidence for the Cutler scenario is substantial. ... The tides in the channel and the direction in which Ted claimed he swam do not match. In addition it would have been a superhuman feat to have made it across the channel (as proven by several professionals who subsequently tried it).

Deputy Sheriff Christopher Look's testimony, coupled with the testimony of Ray LaRosa and two Lyons girls, proves that there were two people in Ted's car with Mary Jo at 12:45 PM. The three party members walking along the road south toward the cottage confirmed the time that Mr. Look drove by. He stopped to ask if they needed a ride. Look says that just prior to that he encountered Ted's car parked facing north at the juncture of the main road and the dirt road. ... He says he saw a man driving, a woman in the seat beside him, and what he thought was another woman lying on the back seat. He remembered a portion of the license plate which matched Ted's car, as did the description of the car.
...
The other important testimony came from Tony Ulasewicz who said he was ordered by the Plumbers to fly immediately to Chappaquiddick and dig up dirt on Ted. The only problem Tony has is that, according to his testimony, he arrived early on the morning of the "accident", before the whole incident had been made public.
https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html

In Conspiracy: The Plot to Stop The Kennedys, Matthew Smith says that there was a split in the road on the island - one going to the ferry and the other to the broken bridge, and that Ted and Mary Jo had driven several times already on the correct road, to the ferry, and so they should have known the right way to go for certain. So he is skeptical of Ted's story that he accidentally took the wrong road. He notes that the policeman saw Ted's car at half past midnight, which conflicts with Ted's story, because the ferry closed at midnight. Keough's handbag was found underneath the car, suggesting to the author that Keough was the woman in the passenger seat, while Mary Jo Kopechne was in the backseat. He notes that Kennedy had a drastic change in mood the morning after the accident, suggesting that he hadn't realized the girl had died. Blood was found on her sleeve and down the back of her shirt, and she was found with 5-6 drinks worth of alcohol, despite her not being a drinker. He proposes that she got an injection sedating her.

Cutler in his article Chappaquiddick says the car must have been going quickly (eg 40 mph) and didnt swerve to avoid the crash, because the "skid" marks are straight. He suggests Ted's injuries were from being physically attacked.
Quote:The Group hired several men and at least one woman to be at Chappaquiddick during the weekend of the yacht race and the planned party on the island. They ambushed Ted and Mary Jo after they left the cottage and knocked Ted out with blows to his head and body. They took the unconscious or semi-conscious Kennedy to Martha's Vineyard and deposited him in his hotel room. Another group took Mary Jo to the bridge in Ted's car, force fed her with a knock out potion of alcoholic beverage, placed her in the back seat, and caused the car to accelerate off the side of the bridge into the water. They broke the windows on one side of the car to insure the entry of water; then they watched the car until they were sure Mary Jo would not escape.


That doesn't make much sense to me. If they were able to get that close to Ted then why not just kill him and be done with it instead of trying to plot the downfall of his career with this elaborate plan.
(01-05-2018 12:09 PM)Redneck Wrote: [ -> ]That doesn't make much sense to me. If they were able to get that close to Ted then why not just kill him and be done with it instead of trying to plot the downfall of his career with this elaborate plan.

The theory is that killing Kennedies over and over and over and over would become too obvious of a pattern. So they chose to incriminate him to make him unelectable. It's a bit like asking why was a honeytrap set up for Clinton with Lewinsky, instead of doing something more harmful. Probably there are times when indirect tactics are used by politicians against their opponents to keep them out of races or make them resign early that don't involve killing the candidate himself.
Who set the honeytrap for Clinton?
(01-05-2018 12:15 PM)Rako Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-05-2018 12:09 PM)Redneck Wrote: [ -> ]That doesn't make much sense to me. If they were able to get that close to Ted then why not just kill him and be done with it instead of trying to plot the downfall of his career with this elaborate plan.

The theory is that killing Kennedies over and over and over and over would become too obvious of a pattern. So they chose to incriminate him to make him unelectable. It's a bit like asking why was a honeytrap set up for Clinton with Lewinsky, instead of doing something more harmful. Probably there are times when indirect tactics are used by politicians against their opponents to keep them out of races or make them resign early that don't involve killing the candidate himself.

they still offed JFK Jr, but that was 30 years later. There's no doubt it was a setup IMO, but I wonder who feared the Kennedy's so much, and why? whacking an entire family is something the mafia would do. The NWO is more sophisticated than that, and there's no evidence that the Kennedys were strongly anti-NWO or anti communist.
(01-05-2018 12:36 PM)Redneck Wrote: [ -> ]Who set the honeytrap for Clinton?
http://www.rense.com/general69/col.htm
Lewinsky said she didn't want to hurt the president, but then she kept the unwashed dress. So it seems more likely that she operated with the goal of being a liability.
I always figured Ted got drunk and drove off the bridge and then fled the scene. He was a known heavy drinker.
(01-05-2018 10:45 PM)pilgrim Wrote: [ -> ]I always figured Ted got drunk and drove off the bridge and then fled the scene. He was a known heavy drinker.

That's what I've always thought as well. As for the arguments that this girl wouldn't drink or have sex with Ted because she was a good Catholic, they are rather naive.
I guess if she was drunk it could explain why she couldn't get out herself.
I don't doubt that there were people who wanted to make sure that Ted wouldn't become President, but they may have been more complicit in the coverage of the event after it happened, an opportunistic attack on his character, than in setting him up.

Then again, anything is possible.
(01-05-2018 12:59 PM)Rako Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-05-2018 12:36 PM)Redneck Wrote: [ -> ]Who set the honeytrap for Clinton?
http://www.rense.com/general69/col.htm
Lewinsky said she didn't want to hurt the president, but then she kept the unwashed dress. So it seems more likely that she operated with the goal of being a liability.

Maybe that was an insurance policy. The dress was probably connected to a dead man's switch.
(01-06-2018 01:26 AM)Count Iblis Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-05-2018 12:59 PM)Rako Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-05-2018 12:36 PM)Redneck Wrote: [ -> ]Who set the honeytrap for Clinton?
http://www.rense.com/general69/col.htm
Lewinsky said she didn't want to hurt the president, but then she kept the unwashed dress. So it seems more likely that she operated with the goal of being a liability.

Maybe that was an insurance policy. The dress was probably connected to a dead man's switch.

Honeytrap is a pretty old political tactic, and there are alot of articles with details on how that appears analogous to Lewinsky. The Israelis recorded his sex talk and told Bill that they had. This was in the middle of Middle East negotiations. If she was saving the dress as an insurance policy, it means that love and sex were not the only things going on in her head, she was thinking about risks due to his political power. So calculations of political power were part of her activities, and that in turn suggests it could have been part of the reason for the sex itself.

Rather than activities based on pure sex and not wanting "to hurt the president", or sex + fear of getting killed, her keeping the dress suggests to me in the atmosphere of politics and how it was used that there was a political intent. Clinton had had relations with numerous women, some of whom complained, but Lewinsky got the attention, talkshows, interviews, even decades later. Most likely she had sponsors or political supporters.
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