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This will be my thread for personal research.

I am going to be compiling what I believe to be the most compelling arguments that contradict the official narrative in this thread.

Arguments, even my own, shown to be clearly wrong will be deleted from this thread.
#1 WHERE ARE THE CHILDREN?

According to the principal Dawn Hochsprung months before the alleged shooting, 700 kids attended Sandy Hook Elementary School and were supposedly evacuated to the firehouse following the shooting. Not a single picture taken by photographers on that day show more than 10-15 kids in a single frame. Aerial footage taken by the news chopper of the firehouse after the school had been evacuated do not show even a few dozen children, but rather mostly adults.

For orientation purposes, this is a bird's eye view of the school with appropriate locations marked:

[Image: sandyhookmap.png]

Shown in the video below is news chopper footage of the firehouse at approximately 10:42 am (according to a shadow direction analysis discussed here in this video: Sandy Hook Chopper 12 Footage - Feature Length Shadow Analysis https://youtu.be/H5bVoXK-E9g





Issues to consider:

1) The hundreds of children along with their respective parents are nowhere to be seen. At most you only see a few children in the entire clip.

2) Adults appear to walk aimlessly and without purpose.

3) Adults appear to be walking in one door on the rear and exiting from the front appearing to look busy. This is the infamous "walking in circles" incident popular on the web.

For reference purposes, this is a real elementary school bomb threat evacuation in Glendale, California of 800 plus students:





Children nowhere to be seen in the aerial shots. 700 kids + 1000+ parents should have been evacuated to the firehouse.
https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMirror...1bab54.jpg

More on the ground footage. Children basically nowhere to be seen:



Great idea.

I really wish you and Daglord could squash the heat and listen to each other maturely without fighting... he has very interesting views on the matter that I think, if open minded, could be very refreshing. He has some legit challenges to your perspectives, and you do for him too. He has a wealth of info posted @ MT, but unfortunately the site is down at the moment Sad

SH seems to isolate people into bubbles, either people believe it was 100% real, or 100% hoax, etc etc... the truth imo is somewhere in the middle.

Personally, I think SOMETHING happened there, some kind of horrible event, and TPTB did not want the truth to get out so they swooped in and created a fake narrative for the public to follow. Since then, I also feel strongly that a LOT of disinfo and crappy CT vids have been perpetuated to further fog the issue. People fighting each other, etc so that the truth is buried in a mountain of shit and really hard to extract.

We need to come together and listen to why people have difficulty with different points, and really be open and willing to understanding why people are so passionate on ALL sides of the debate. I don't think its wise to make up one's mind about it and THEN go looking for info that matches it. We should start fresh, clean slate, listen to all points of view and follow wherever the trail leads us.

The other problem is that there are very few hard facts of anything... most of it is all subjective/open to interpretation, or a collection of foggy oddities or anomalies that TOGETHER lead one to believe something is fishy, but nothing that will ever actually convince anyone on its own.

Good thread, I hope it gets further than the other 100 threads, lol
...nvm
#2 CT Chief Medical Examiner Wayne Carver's Bizarre Statement saying he "he hopes the people of Newtown, don't have it [the event] crash on their head later".

The exact quote is "I hope, uhh, I hope they and I hope uhh the people of Newtown, uhh don't have it crash on their head later"

The remark can be heard on the video posted here:





The full press conference video is here:





The way I interpret his statement is that he basically went off script as possibly an unwilling participant and accidentally or purposefully made that remark possibly to absolve himself of any guilt.

Deniers (ie Shills) are claiming what he really meant is that he hopes this event doesn't cause them grief later on. I disagree with this interpretation because of his choice of words. The phrase "crashing on their head later" implies that this event or operation could all be exposed at a later date. If in fact Dr. Carver merely wanted to console the victims or the town of this tragedy he would not have used the phrase "crash on their head later." The shooting itself is actually the crash and the damage has already been done, so there was absolutely no need to use the word "later" to console the victims.
(10-14-2015 03:13 AM)EVILYOSHIDA Wrote: [ -> ]#1 WHERE ARE THE CHILDREN?

According to the principal Dawn Hochsprung months before the alleged shooting, 700 kids attended Sandy Hook Elementary School and were supposedly evacuated to the firehouse following the shooting. Not a single picture taken by photographers on that day show more than 10-15 kids in a single frame. Aerial footage taken by the news chopper of the firehouse after the school had been evacuated do not show even a few dozen children, but rather mostly adults.

For orientation purposes, this is a bird's eye view of the school with appropriate locations marked:

[Image: sandyhookmap.png]

Shown in the video below is news chopper footage of the firehouse at approximately 10:42 am (according to a shadow direction analysis discussed here in this video: Sandy Hook Chopper 12 Footage - Feature Length Shadow Analysis https://youtu.be/H5bVoXK-E9g





Issues to consider:

1) The hundreds of children along with their respective parents are nowhere to be seen. At most you only see a few children in the entire clip.

2) Adults appear to walk aimlessly and without purpose.

3) Adults appear to be walking in one door on the rear and exiting from the front appearing to look busy. This is the infamous "walking in circles" incident popular on the web.


1. In that aerial shot it looks like a mass of people just by the baseball diamond. I have seen other images showing many kids... not 700, but enough to suggest some kind of evacuation

2. If you are present at such an event, I don't think its odd to walk around aimlessly. People are confused/upset, etc... its natural to pace around, be fidgety etc when you are agitated but with nothing to do. Not a good argument imo

3. The 'walking in circles' vid IMO has been somewhat exaggerated. The vid shows SOME indication, but was also looped, with suggestive arrows etc. If you really break it down, only a few people are really doing this circle route, which is also not so crazy considering people are confused/traumatized
(10-14-2015 03:27 AM)Masato Toys Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-14-2015 03:13 AM)EVILYOSHIDA Wrote: [ -> ]#1 WHERE ARE THE CHILDREN?

According to the principal Dawn Hochsprung months before the alleged shooting, 700 kids attended Sandy Hook Elementary School and were supposedly evacuated to the firehouse following the shooting. Not a single picture taken by photographers on that day show more than 10-15 kids in a single frame. Aerial footage taken by the news chopper of the firehouse after the school had been evacuated do not show even a few dozen children, but rather mostly adults.

For orientation purposes, this is a bird's eye view of the school with appropriate locations marked:

[Image: sandyhookmap.png]

Shown in the video below is news chopper footage of the firehouse at approximately 10:42 am (according to a shadow direction analysis discussed here in this video: Sandy Hook Chopper 12 Footage - Feature Length Shadow Analysis https://youtu.be/H5bVoXK-E9g





Issues to consider:

1) The hundreds of children along with their respective parents are nowhere to be seen. At most you only see a few children in the entire clip.

2) Adults appear to walk aimlessly and without purpose.

3) Adults appear to be walking in one door on the rear and exiting from the front appearing to look busy. This is the infamous "walking in circles" incident popular on the web.


1. In that aerial shot it looks like a mass of people just by the baseball diamond. I have seen other images showing many kids... not 700, but enough to suggest some kind of evacuation

2. If you are present at such an event, I don't think its odd to walk around aimlessly. People are confused/upset, etc... its natural to pace around, be fidgety etc when you are agitated but with nothing to do. Not a good argument imo

3. The 'walking in circles' vid IMO has been somewhat exaggerated. The vid shows SOME indication, but was also looped, with suggestive arrows etc. If you really break it down, only a few people are really doing this circle route, which is also not so crazy considering people are confused/traumatized

this is what a real school evacuation looks like:





Far more sense of urgency, way more kids in the frame. cell phone video of the evacuation as expected in the 2010s.
Carver quotes are open for interpretation.

More subjective stuff that one could easily see as perfectly natural under the circumstances

*Please don't get me wrong, I am a big believer that SH is fucked up, I'm only adamant these days that subjective/fuzzy arguments are getting us nowhere, and in fact are actually dividing the Truth-Seekers


btw, EY do you believe Adam = Ryan? I don't see that at all. Lots of pics of Adam, even a video - I don't think he looks like Ryan at all
(10-14-2015 03:21 AM)Masato Toys Wrote: [ -> ]Great idea.

I really wish you and Daglord could squash the heat and listen to each other maturely without fighting... he has very interesting views on the matter that I think, if open minded, could be very refreshing. He has some legit challenges to your perspectives, and you do for him too. He has a wealth of info posted @ MT, but unfortunately the site is down at the moment Sad

SH seems to isolate people into bubbles, either people believe it was 100% real, or 100% hoax, etc etc... the truth imo is somewhere in the middle.

Personally, I think SOMETHING happened there, some kind of horrible event, and TPTB did not want the truth to get out so they swooped in and created a fake narrative for the public to follow. Since then, I also feel strongly that a LOT of disinfo and crappy CT vids have been perpetuated to further fog the issue. People fighting each other, etc so that the truth is buried in a mountain of shit and really hard to extract.

We need to come together and listen to why people have difficulty with different points, and really be open and willing to understanding why people are so passionate on ALL sides of the debate. I don't think its wise to make up one's mind about it and THEN go looking for info that matches it. We should start fresh, clean slate, listen to all points of view and follow wherever the trail leads us.

The other problem is that there are very few hard facts of anything... most of it is all subjective/open to interpretation, or a collection of foggy oddities or anomalies that TOGETHER lead one to believe something is fishy, but nothing that will ever actually convince anyone on its own.

Good thread, I hope it gets further than the other 100 threads, lol

Daglord along with his buddies Keith Johnson, Deanna Spingola and CW Wade are clearly designated shills for this event. They are not interested in the truth. Daglord gets all of his information from either Keith Johnson or CW Wade, both holocaust deniers. So let me get this straight, KJ and CW both think that the death of millions of jews were hoaxed yet think it's batshit insane for the death of 26 people to be possibly an illusion?

Look around on the net, people who believe Daglord's position are a tiny minority. No one really believes their POV.

I personally challenged daglord to show me more than 15-20 kids in a single frame from any picture. He couldn't do it. There are no more than 10-15 kids in the photos with the most children present.
(10-14-2015 03:32 AM)Masato Toys Wrote: [ -> ]Carver quotes are open for interpretation.

More subjective stuff that one could easily see as perfectly natural under the circumstances

*Please don't get me wrong, I am a big believer that SH is fucked up, I'm only adamant these days that subjective/fuzzy arguments are getting us nowhere, and in fact are actually dividing the Truth-Seekers


btw, EY do you believe Adam = Ryan? I don't see that at all. Lots of pics of Adam, even a video - I don't think he looks like Ryan at all

Anything is open to interpretation. the fact that he said he hopes it doesn't come crashing down their heads later is very revealing. it implies that he knows that this thing is bullshit and he hopes it doesn't come crashing down on them later.

What other interpretation is there? That he is consoling the victims by saying he hopes the shooting doesn't crash on them later? the crash already happened, the shooting. now is the time for mourning and rebuilding
^ ya see, your mind is closed

That's sad. Dag has some really good insights. I believe he is seeking the truth, and imo has spent more time researching SH than anyone I've communicated with.

You've shut the door to a wealth of info imo. Even if you disagree with his overall take, he has lots of good points to consider.

Dag doesn't say it was real, or that nothing fishy happened w/ SH. He just believes that the outright hoax theory has lots of holes. SOMETHING happened there, lots of shit went down... and this is quite clear.

If you and Dag could cool the fuck down and come together we may get somewhere. As long as you both keep raggin on each other, you're both missing lots of great evidence
(10-14-2015 03:36 AM)EVILYOSHIDA Wrote: [ -> ]Anything is open to interpretation. the fact that he said he hopes it doesn't come crashing down their heads later is very revealing. it implies that he knows that this thing is bullshit and he hopes it doesn't come crashing down on them later.

What other interpretation is there? That he is consoling the victims by saying he hopes the shooting doesn't crash on them later? the crash already happened, the shooting. now is the time for mourning and rebuilding

It doesn't imply that... that is just one interpretation. People say weird things, we don't always articulate our thoughts properly. It could mean lots of things...

We will not win the SH Truth war with subjective things.

I hate to say it, but even the 'happy parent' interviews, which imo are some of the strongest evidence for SH BS, are also still subjective and are not real proof. They look fake as hell to me, but that's just me. Lots of other people find them very genuine and heartwarming, and who is to say?

We need FACTS. Sadly, with all the SH hooplah, there is still very little.Sad
(10-14-2015 03:39 AM)Masato Toys Wrote: [ -> ]^ ya see, your mind is closed

That's sad. Dag has some really good insights. I believe he is seeking the truth, and imo has spent more time researching SH than anyone I've communicated with.

You've shut the door to a wealth of info imo. Even if you disagree with his overall take, he has lots of good points to consider.

Dag doesn't say it was real, or that nothing fishy happened w/ SH. He just believes that the outright hoax theory has lots of holes. SOMETHING happened there, lots of shit went down... and this is quite clear.

If you and Dag could cool the fuck down and come together we may get somewhere. As long as you both keep raggin on each other, you're both missing lots of great evidence

Actually daglord and co. follow the official report. that is how they are debunking everything. the official report was released 1 year after the incident after all the hoax claims were made and many things were modified to accomodate the various discrepancies IMO.

Fuck yeah my mind is closed. Closed to bullshit. Daglord is clearly a shill dude. I don't say this easily. The guy believes in peak oil and call kinds of whacky establishment beliefs.

I think your problem is that you don't believe in objective truth. You think the world is just like this fog where you can see everything from anything. The fact is physically there is only one sequence of events that happened that day in Conneticut. We might not be able to find it, but we can contradict the official narrative.

Daglord spends a lot of time thinking up of creative ways to contradict obvious fuckery. He says all the parents smiling is due to "different ways of grieving" this is absolutely dogshit. Yeah 1-2 parents and we could put it up to chance, but several to all? No way. It's extremely hard to make fake look real.

Another thing you have to consider is that people get paid to debunk sandy hook stuff. There is monetary incentive to do what he does. there are legions of shills on the net getting paid per post.

Who is paying people like me? What advantage do I get professionally, monetarily or socially from the position that I take?

Also, you say you have seen pictures that show dozens upon dozens of kids, can you please show them to me? I want to see a single picture with more than 10-15 kids in the frame.
(10-14-2015 03:45 AM)Masato Toys Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-14-2015 03:36 AM)EVILYOSHIDA Wrote: [ -> ]Anything is open to interpretation. the fact that he said he hopes it doesn't come crashing down their heads later is very revealing. it implies that he knows that this thing is bullshit and he hopes it doesn't come crashing down on them later.

What other interpretation is there? That he is consoling the victims by saying he hopes the shooting doesn't crash on them later? the crash already happened, the shooting. now is the time for mourning and rebuilding

It doesn't imply that... that is just one interpretation. People say weird things, we don't always articulate our thoughts properly. It could mean lots of things...

We will not win the SH Truth war with subjective things.

I hate to say it, but even the 'happy parent' interviews, which imo are some of the strongest evidence for SH BS, are also still subjective and are not real proof. They look fake as hell to me, but that's just me. Lots of other people find them very genuine and heartwarming, and who is to say?

We need FACTS. Sadly, with all the SH hooplah, there is still very little.Sad

The way you convince people is to show them a multitude of subjective fishy things and the cumulative effect will show people these oddities could not be due to chance alone.

There are no facts. what are facts to you masato? the sandy hook official report? You want Chief Kehoe to admit it was a hoax?

Looking at the circumstantial evidence is EXACTLY what is needed.

People are thrown in jail daily over circumstantial evidence.

let's say you were seen in the middle of the night putting a huge heavy bag in the back of your truck and drove away into the woods. the next day your wife has gone missing. That is actually enough circumstantial evidence to bust you of murder even without finding the body.

fuck yeah the "subjective evidence" is compelling.

You think this is subjective and foggy?



You are as much a candidate to be a shill than anyone, if we are honest... its still a mystery to many how you can post so much and still earn a living. But I let that slide because calling each other shills just breaks us apart and does nothing constructive.

Dag does NOT follow the official report. He is looking for an alternative explanation to an outright hoax.

I agree there is an objective truth to SH, 'only one sequence of events that happened that day in Conneticut'. I just think its dangerous to start deciding what that is based on such a fog of confusing info.

When MT is back up I hope you will allow yourself to put bias aside for a few hours and check the posts there, we were on to some interesting ideas. I believe there were some pics of evacuation too. Not 700, but enough to clearly show bunches of kids all walking away from the school, etc.
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